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Fear of making things worse!? :(

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        08-17-2012, 09:22 PM
      #11
    Foal
    :)

    Start from the ground up! :) which means, taking it back to the beginning as if you were training him yourself, with no prior training. Use the least amount of force and only increase if necessary! Then in a couple weeks or months or so, he should be better, you just have to take things slow, also, make sure that you know how to do the one reined stop! In case something like that would happen in the future :)
    Hope I helped a little bit!
         
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        08-17-2012, 09:27 PM
      #12
    Showing
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by loosie    
    ...But this won't help you learn to do better & you may not find yourself a better horse - the devil you know may be easier than the one you don't. Not blaming for this - none of us are born understanding & much of our knowledge comes from making mistakes - but it's highly likely it's the way you're riding & using the reins, etc as to the behaviour of your horse.

    So I'd personally suggest you find a good instructor/trainer to give you some lessons & help show you how to turn around your relationship with him. You & they may come to the conclusion after a lesson or 2 that you & he are better off apart, but then again you may find that he's the perfect horse, with some different tactics up your sleeve.
    I couldn't agree more. IMHO, your time would be better spent putting in some hours with a good trainer that can help both you and your horse. Like loosie said, most of a horse's issues are caused by the person riding/handling them; nothing to be ashamed of, we've all made our share of mistakes with horses. BUT, if you don't learn what you are doing wrong, then you'll keep doing it wrong and you'll keep having issues with your horses.

    Work with a trainer to find out where you're going wrong and get that corrected. Also, trainer can teach you the proper way to handle it when a horse does get strong or resistant so that you don't end up in the same boat with your next horse.

    If you absolutely feel the need to sell him, then that's what you should do, but if you feel like he can be a great horse (which he was when you got him), then take some time and ask for hands-on help to teach him how to be that great horse again.

    You might let your Dad read this thread, I don't know if that would help or not. With the horse market the way it is right now, you would lose money trying to sell that horse...if you got him sold at all.
    themacpack likes this.
         
        08-17-2012, 09:30 PM
      #13
    Foal
    I don't want to run away and just give on this horse.. I want to work this out because when I first got him he was amazing. I am a teen. My mom knows a lady that lives about 45 min. Away that trains horses. Would that be the best way to go?? The only reason I brought up selling him is because I don't want to make things worse.. Although... you're right.. I could end up with one much worse! We also Have a bigger penned in area right now that I could work with him once I feel confident in the round pen.... it's probably quadruple the size but it should be OK. Also... do you think I should stay in the snaffle?? Again.. I'll talk to my mom about the lady who trains.. We've talked about her before but my dad has been pretty stubborn on the whole Idea. Also.. THANK YOU loosie!!! I've been really worried about what I'm doing and questioning wether or not it's the right thing to do... Just what you've said has made my day all together!!!!
    ThursdayNext likes this.
         
        08-17-2012, 09:32 PM
      #14
    Weanling
    What I meant when I said that horses bolting is bound to happen is that not every horse is trained perfectly and you need to know how to handle it and be safe when it does happen. If your horse doesn't respect you I'd try I hand work like MyBoyBlue182 said. I would make him pay attention to you when you are on a lead ropeby doing lots of fast walking then slow walking then backing up... Then you can try him riding. If there is any way you can get around training with treats I would. I found that using food as a reward for some horses makes them disrespectful. They think that they can push you around "like a vending machine" as one of my trainers put it :) If you have to use treats that's fine because not all horses are pushy like that. You can teach them to behave with treats, it's just harder to make them respectful about it and you don't have a trainer to help you. It sounds like your confidence is pretty shaken so try riding other horses that are well behaved on trails to boost your confidence. If you feel scared then your horse will too. I once heard someone say that your reins are like telephone wires and your horse can sense your feelings through them.
         
        08-17-2012, 09:37 PM
      #15
    Foal
    I've never really been scared around my horse... The first time was when he bolted. I've always been pretty calm. Thank- you so much for all the help. !!!
         
        08-17-2012, 09:40 PM
      #16
    Trained
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Ashsunnyeventer    
    I found that using food as a reward for some horses makes them disrespectful. They think that they can push you around "like a vending machine"
    It's not the food treats that 'makes them disrespectful', it's owners behaving like vending machines! Seen a number of people thinking leaning, shaking, bashing vending machines are worthwhile too!
    themacpack and FaydesMom like this.
         
        08-17-2012, 09:56 PM
      #17
    Banned
    I think treats combined with a not entirely strong leader will make for a more pushy horse. You can reward just as easily with a pat or kind voice.
    Kayty and FaydesMom like this.
         
        08-17-2012, 10:10 PM
      #18
    Showing
    I would give it a shot to see if your Mom is more receptive to the idea of working with the trainer. If the closest one you know of is 45 minutes (and you know that she's good), then perhaps some time spent with her once or twice a week would be sufficient. If nothing else, she could give you some great ideas on what to work on at home and she'd be just a phone call away if you start having trouble.

    Personally, I would keep him in the snaffle because that's what I use for all my initial training so that's what I'm most comfortable with but if you want to try to keep him bitless, you'll need something like a sidepull; something that gives clear direct reining cues.

    A few things that you can work on in the meantime is getting him supple to the bit each way. Starting from the ground, stand at his side and take up a little pressure on the rein on that side. Keep yourself in the same position on his side and move with him if he starts turning circles. Keep that pressure on the bit until you feel him "give", which is to say that he voluntarily reaches his nose closer around toward the stirrup and takes the pressure off his own mouth. The instant that he does that, let go of all the pressure and give him a bit of praise (I'm not a fan of treats for things like this as it can make them a treat-monger, I've found that a gentle scratch on the neck works just as well as anything).

    When he straightens his neck back out, let him stand there a moment and then ask again. Keep doing that over and over on each side until he willingly gives his head when you pick up the slightest pressure. Then, start again when you're in the saddle, bring one hand up to your hip bone and hold until he stops moving his feet and gives to the pressure.

    Another thing to work on is getting him responsive to leg pressure. Same thing, start on the ground using a finger to get him moving his hips over and then work your way up into the saddle. Here is a decent video of how to do this correctly.

    If you can control his head and his hind end, you've got control of him.

    Then, you can work on something like this
    The Road of a Horse Trainer: Teaching "Cruise Control"
    In the roundpen and get him thinking "stop". Once you're comfortable in the roundpen with all these things, you should feel a lot more comfortable out in the larger pen. When you get out there, make sure that he's still listening to you. If he's not, then work on them more until he is.

    Repetition, consistency, and patience are the 3 most important things for you.
    RisingGlory likes this.
         
        08-17-2012, 11:02 PM
      #19
    Yearling
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by RisingGlory    
    I don't want to run away and just give on this horse.. I want to work this out because when I first got him he was amazing. I am a teen. My mom knows a lady that lives about 45 min. Away that trains horses. Would that be the best way to go?? The only reason I brought up selling him is because I don't want to make things worse.. Although... you're right.. I could end up with one much worse! We also Have a bigger penned in area right now that I could work with him once I feel confident in the round pen.... it's probably quadruple the size but it should be OK. Also... do you think I should stay in the snaffle?? Again.. I'll talk to my mom about the lady who trains.. We've talked about her before but my dad has been pretty stubborn on the whole Idea. Also.. THANK YOU loosie!!! I've been really worried about what I'm doing and questioning wether or not it's the right thing to do... Just what you've said has made my day all together!!!!
    Yes, that's the way to go. Closer would be better, just because you could go more often, but if there's someone that you already know who is good, go for it. YOU GO TOO. Don't just send the horse. You will see it said 100 times on this forum...every time you interact with the horse, you are training it...whether you mean to or not. What you need to do is make sure that you're training it to do good stuff, instead of unintentionally training it to do bad stuff (which I suspect is what is happening, given what you said earlier). Don't blame yourself, you didn't know, but the *only* way to start knowing is to learn.

    What you want is to learn how to handle the horse on the ground so that it understands that you are its leader - if you can't do it there, you won't be able to do it when you're riding either. This stuff is not really hard to learn, but you do have to have someone to teach it to you, and a trainer is going to be the best one to do that.

    If you like this horse, then keep it, and get some training for you both. The others are right - it's a lousy market for selling horses, and horses that need training are going to be harder to sell than horses that have good manners. And if you have been unintentionally teaching this horse to do bad stuff, you'd probably just wind up in this same situation all over again in another year or two if you sold this horse and bought a different one.

    You're doing the right thing by asking for advice and considering the trainer!! I don't know what your dad's problem with this is, but I hope you and your mom can talk him around. It's important for both of you that this happens.
         
        08-18-2012, 06:37 AM
      #20
    Foal
    You do have to be careful when using treats as a reward. Food is a very high motivator so I like it but the human needs to decide when the horse is worthy of such a wonderful reward. NEVER give a horse a treat if he is "shopping" on you or picking your pockets. Some horses can also become a bit insane when food is involved. If that's the case than treating is not a good idea for your horse.

    Also - I've heard the vending machine theory before and my friend Lisa had a good way of explaining a solution to that problem. If you picture a vending machine - people go to it all the time because they want a soda they put the money in and out pops a soda, every time. No one is ever cautious about using a vending machine because they know without a doubt they will get thier payoff. You DO NOT want to be a vending machine.

    What you want to be is a SLOT MACHINE. People gamble because they want a million dollars. They put the money in and hope to get a pay off. Most of the time once you loose enough you decide it's not worth it and stop putting money in (horses stop "begging" for food) Although you stop putting money in - you can still go to the casino (or do the desired behavior) to see if you can get that reward you want so bad. If you ever get just the smallest reward it can be a reminder that it IS possible and you might as well try!

    Now like people some horses can become addicted to gambling - these would be the food aggressive horses that should not go to the casino at all!!!
    loosie likes this.
         

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