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Feeling really pressured.(involves training).

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        11-12-2012, 08:42 PM
      #1
    Foal
    Feeling really pressured.(involves training).

    Alright so, a month and a half ago a 3 year old never been touched MFT gelding was delivered to my house for me to break. That has been done, he's green very green, but can go on trails like a pro. He on a scale of one to ten, from one being a dead head horse to 10 being so head high and scared. He's about, right now around a 7 1/2.

    I almost feel I'm screwing up with him though. I have broken out my 2 horses myself, ridden a few problem horses but this to be honest is the first actual horse someone has put in my trust to break out for them. I had a 15 year old gelding before him sent to me with bucking issues and he went home and is completely fine now.

    A couple days ago I went to mount him. His owner wants him to be able to stand for mounting which he's done before. I had just got done doing a 30 minute desensitizing session among 45 minutes of lunging and ground work combined. I went to mount him nothing seemed wrong he was fine. Put the leg over the saddle and off he went.

    He reared 3 times and about flipped the first time. Took off and started crow hopping and that's when I came off. It wasn't the rears or the bolting that got me it was the crow hopping. I can't believe I even stuck it out as long as I did with having no feet and barely my butt in the saddle. He's never done this before, never bolted, never acted like he wanted to buck has never bitten ect. I'm assuming he had a bad day and I don't blame him. I wasn't mad at him just needed to get him caught to get back on him.

    His owner is coming to pick him up Saturday. I called him the evening of me being thrown and told him I really don't feel his ready to go home yet. This horse is unbelievably sensitive to everything. He's not a spooker out on trails astonishingly he's only ever spooked in place once. But the slightest bit of not watching how he responds to things could set him off. Its almost like, he's not mentally capable of somethings. And he has reared with me, even before being thrown we've had 3 rearing incidents and around the third time of me getting on to him he hadn't done it since I was thrown a few days ago.

    I feel, that Duke here might be to much for the older gentleman to handle. Duke is his horse and therefore he can do what he wishes. But I don't want to be blamed if he goes home and is hurt because Duke got seriously spooked or something happened and it was the horses fault.

    Any advice? Duke has made much progress, he's green but he listens well under saddle. Easy to get into the fox trot and right now were working on trot/lope transitions.

    And a picture for your viewing pleasure of super horse xD! After he threw me the next day was just a full day of back to the basics. Ground work, lunging, desensitizing, halter exercises ect.
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    xxdanioo likes this.
         
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        11-12-2012, 08:48 PM
      #2
    Started
    Could he have possibly hurt himself at anytime before your mounting?
    What was he like when you were just about to get on? Was he staring at anything?
    It could just be inexperience and he still needs to get used to it. Your boot could have tapped him in an odd spot, it made a weird noise, maybe he was standing funny.

    It looks like your saddle is on his withers, but I ride english.. so


    Best of luck to you and Duke!!
         
        11-12-2012, 08:50 PM
      #3
    Started
    TO the saddle, I took another look.
    My mistake, the tarp was blocking the light, there's clearance there! Very sorry!!

    Could it be too narrow or wide for him?
         
        11-12-2012, 08:58 PM
      #4
    Green Broke
    The best thing you can do for both the horse and his owner is be upfront and honest about the issues you are facing. In the training business, your references and word of mouth can make or break you. The ethical thing to do is tell the owner exactly what happened, tell him that you are afraid the horse might not be the right match for him if that's how you feel, or what he wants, but offer to keep working with him if the owner wishes. Explain that training has to be done on the horse's timetable to some extent, and that rushing things just to meet a deadline could leave gaps in the foundation, and set him up for further problems later. That has to be one of the hardest things a trainer has to do, communicating with the owner. But its also one of the most important.
    Elana likes this.
         
        11-12-2012, 08:58 PM
      #5
    Foal
    [QUOTE=Lexiie;1755276]Could he have possibly hurt himself at anytime before your mounting?
    What was he like when you were just about to get on? Was he staring at anything?
    It could just be inexperience and he still needs to get used to it. Your boot could have tapped him in an odd spot, it made a weird noise, maybe he was standing funny.

    It looks like your saddle is on his withers, but I ride english.. so


    Best of luck to you and Duke!![/QUOTE

    He pinned his ears back right has he went up. And that's when things happened in slow mo lol. I wonder if he almost just had it in him that day to just get me off.

    Saddle is okay! He is mostly flat backed actually. But it fits him pretty well.
         
        11-12-2012, 09:01 PM
      #6
    Banned
    Sorry to hear of your fall! And your situation sounds like a tough one....honestly I think it's a riding/in the saddle issue, and I think you need to ride him a whole lot more to get him more settled because it sounds like he does a whole pile of groundwork, which is great, but sometimes issues in the saddle need to be solved in the saddle.....I'm not trying to sound blunt, but I've seen a few people who spend more time on the ground playing with their horses than they do riding them, so the horse is awesome on the ground.....but a train wreck when your on it's back.....in regards to the old gent, I'd focus a WHOLE pile of time flopping around on this horse, climbing on and off from either side, sitting heavy, and riding him through his 'issues' until he figures out that you're going to do whatever the heck you p,ease on his back......because he sounds like he's not TRULY desensitized in the saddle.....sounds like you've made good progress, but riding him through this would be the way to go.....
         
        11-12-2012, 09:23 PM
      #7
    Foal
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Muppetgirl    
    Sorry to hear of your fall! And your situation sounds like a tough one....honestly I think it's a riding/in the saddle issue, and I think you need to ride him a whole lot more to get him more settled because it sounds like he does a whole pile of groundwork, which is great, but sometimes issues in the saddle need to be solved in the saddle.....I'm not trying to sound blunt, but I've seen a few people who spend more time on the ground playing with their horses than they do riding them, so the horse is awesome on the ground.....but a train wreck when your on it's back.....in regards to the old gent, I'd focus a WHOLE pile of time flopping around on this horse, climbing on and off from either side, sitting heavy, and riding him through his 'issues' until he figures out that you're going to do whatever the heck you p,ease on his back......because he sounds like he's not TRULY desensitized in the saddle.....sounds like you've made good progress, but riding him through this would be the way to go.....

    That, is a very valid point. Thank you!

    That actually makes TONS of sense to me. In here in goes my lack of some thinking with training this one. I just need to be more loud in the saddle. It makes perfect sense. Thank you bunches lol!
         
        11-12-2012, 09:43 PM
      #8
    Yearling
    Welcome to the world of training horses. As for the horse,.... actually, I guess I’d want to know how you feel about handling him. I’ll talk, or type, about why, it will get a bit long though. It might help but.
    Horses, and humans, like any social animal, have a very strong sense of sympathy. I don’t mean feeling sorry for something, what I’m talking about here is sympathy in its academic sense. That is, horses like humans, are able to sense or read how others of their species, and other species, are feeling very well; even to the point of apparent mind reading in some cases. So think of the times that you meet someone and you get a “gut feeling” that they are good or bad, that they might steal your car, or that you can trust them. There is actually plenty of scientific and sociological research about why this happens, and why we are usually right when we feel these things. We are a highly verbal animal, and we still have it innate in us, horses that are prey animal and mostly non verbal have this stuff in spades.
    Now probably none of that is new to you, but what might be new is how emotions and feelings work in the human body (I would have to write a book to describe it, and it would be a poor book; if you want references I can give them to you). The point being that feelings and emotion are different and you can have them without even feeling them; importantly as you have them without feeling them you will somatises them, or your body will give off tell tail signs about how you are feeling, even if you don’t know you are feeling like that. Throughout the evolutionary survival of horses this meant that to avoid being eaten they had to be really good at picking up these kinds of feelings from their herd mates, and other prey animals they were sharing the tundra with.
    So, what this means is that, if I understand correctly, it’s your first time to start a horse from scratch? If you are feeling a little unsure of yourself, or nervous, even if you try to hide it, even if you don’t actually notice that that’s how you feel, the horse will grab a hold of it straight away, and figure there’s something to be nervous about. This then leads to the chain of events I think we all went through at one time or another:
    Horse: “what’s she worried about?” Rider: “this horse is getting worried about something, I’m worried!” Horse: “crap, she really is worried, what’s going on, your meant to keep me safe!!!” Rider: “Oh crap this horse is losing it, I’m more worried than ever!” Horse: “she’s scared of something! Screw this, I’m outta here”. Rider: “ouch that hurt” (brushes dust off and walks off to catch the horse).
    The point is that you have to learn to control it all; you can't hide your feelings and emotions because a horse sees straight through that, you have to actually learn to shut them off and pull out others. I learned to do it slowly and it has helped me train horses. One of the best examples I have is a filly I have been working on. I was leading her past the shed where my uncle was working on his truck, as we went by he dropped a spanner and sent it clinking through the engine, followed by a few choice swear words. The filly crapped herself and nearly leaped on top of me and went to run past. Just as she was getting to the other side of the lead rope, the radio blasted out the Morse code beeps to signal the news, which sent her back over almost on top of me. Then back to the swearing and metallic sounding truck. She jumped back and forth about three times before she noticed I had stood there, still, without the slightest bit of fear (and believe me when you have a 2-1/2 to 3 yo horse nearly jumping on top of you it takes some doing to stop the fear; but, had I dived out of the way, it would have set her off worse). In the end, with all the noise from the radio echoing off the shed wall and my uncle swearing and climbing around the truck engine, she turned to face me and just put her head about 6 inches away from me with her ears about my chest height and relaxed; she knew if she was there with me she was in the safest place in the world.
    When a horse gets that from their trainer/rider they get a leader and someone they can rely on. You can desensitise that horse as much as you want, you could dress it up like a sailing ship and it would be fine; but if it senses in you that there’s something to be scared of, that you are unsure and doubt yourself no amount of desensitisation will fix it. Don’t know if all that will be any help, but good luck with it all.
    Oh yea, and yes, if you doubt for a minute that the owner can handle that horse it would be negligent of you not to impress that upon them, it may be the last thing they want to hear, and even be insulted, but I think you have an obligation to tell them.
         
        11-12-2012, 10:08 PM
      #9
    Yearling
    Excellent advice given above... I am just now backing my 2 and a 1/2 year old Ivy and taking baby laps around our paddock (slow walking a couple times each way, bending, stop and whoa). She's two and can be reactive. I put on my Ipod and sing along - it relaxes both of us, keeps me breathing and putting out those "this ain't nothing" vibes.
    Lexiie likes this.
         
        11-12-2012, 11:35 PM
      #10
    Weanling
    If I am understanding you correctly, he's 3 years old, came to you "untouched" and you broke him so that he now "trails like a pro" in only a month and a half?

    This could be part of your problem. You think he's broke and he's not.

    I can't see the saddle fit for all the stuff hanging off of him, but an ill fitting saddle will most certainly cause the behavior you're experiencing.
    themacpack likes this.
         

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