Filly's 2nd ride, and she's already cinchy?
 
 

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Filly's 2nd ride, and she's already cinchy?

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  • When I pressure the rein to turn she stops & flexes
  • Filly getting broke to ride pees and rings tail

 
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    09-21-2010, 01:45 AM
  #1
Foal
Filly's 2nd ride, and she's already cinchy?

I've been working with this filly for almost two weeks now and she's been doing phenomenally. Here are her two problems when it comes to saddling up:

Cinchy. As soon as the girth touches her belly, she takes a step forward or tries to walk off. I can usually immediately stop her, but there's times where she'll swing around to face me and I'll have to reposition myself to keep saddling her. She's never aggressive, but she does flick her tail and look at me like, "Oooh, that's uncomfortable!"

Head tossing. I am using a hackamore on her, one that I've rigged so the chain has been replaced with leather, and she responds to it beautifully from the ground. In the saddle, things get confusing... any pressure whatsoever causes her to toss her head. If I pull her head left, sometimes she will turn it right, and vice-versa. Or, she'll just back up. She always stops when I want her to, and she flexes nicely. But when she's walking and I ask her to turn, she will stop.

Here's my inquiry: Is there something I can do to prevent these from developing into more serious problems?

I never push her into frustration because that's just not how I train. If I feel she's confused, scared, tense, etc... I will stop what I'm doing, back up, and do it slower. I am always taking things slow-- I cinch her up slowly, never tightening it all the way at once, and I always longe her at the walk and trot before riding.

Tips away!
     
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    09-21-2010, 08:16 AM
  #2
Green Broke
What kind of horse is she? She is still young yet and it sounds like your taking your time but I think she is telling you she needs more time.
"Cinchy. As soon as the girth touches her belly, she takes a step forward or tries to walk off. I can usually immediately stop her, but there's times where she'll swing around to face me and I'll have to reposition myself to keep saddling her. She's never aggressive, but she does flick her tail and look at me like, "Oooh, that's uncomfortable!"

Back up and just use a lead rope around her belly. Tighten, loosen, and repeat until she becomes comfortable with it. The other thing, don't underestimate that she wont become aggressive. If your not listening to her "flick" and "look" she will get worse and MAKE you listen. There is no rush to ride her, no rush to break her, so do everything you can to listen to her. She will tell you how fast you are going. How often are you working with her? Saddling, bridling, and what not? If she doesnt respond in the saddle, you went to fast on the ground. You may need more ground time. Have you driven her? When they become confused everything you thought you taught her becomes messy. This could only mean you need to go back to the ground and start over. I don't mean to sound like you went to fast but from what I am reading it sounds like your horse is telling you you did. There's no shame in backing up. It will happen over and over again. Even broke horses need to go back to some basics. Make sure you are connecting with her. Read her body language more. Sometimes when you think they are being a bratty little child they are not. I hope this gets better, but its better to nip it in the bud before it gets worse. Good luck.
     
    09-21-2010, 08:54 AM
  #3
Started
If you are using a hackamore that had a chain, then it is probably a shank hackamore and a curb chain. Those can be extremely dangerous and cause alot of pain, plus the shanks can give mixed signals. Those type of hackamores have been shown they can break a horses jaw. She is tossing her head to get away from pressure.

If it isn't a shank hackamore"bit" type then I apologize, but when you said you fixed the chain part and switched it to a leather strap, I assume you are using the hackamore bit....
I would switch to either a mild snaffle bit or a bosal hackamore, they are mild and easy on your baby.
     
    09-21-2010, 09:24 AM
  #4
Trained
I agree with the lead rope suggestion.

Also how old is the filly? She sounds mentally not ready to be ridden just from what little bit you told us.
     
    09-21-2010, 12:05 PM
  #5
Foal
Filly is 4 and I have been working with her just about every day for the past 2 weeks+. She's extremely quick and trusting... She's been messed with since she was a baby and she absolutely loves people and KNOWS we would never hurt her. I've been very very adamant about not breaking that trust. ZERO aggression and ZERO pushiness. Her owner saddled her and led her around with a kid on her back several times before I am came along. She learns way quicker than any horse I've ever worked with, because she likes the attention.

The hackamore I'm using is not what you described... here is a picture I found of what I have, except I rigged it with a leather curb strap:



It's mild and harmless when used correctly. The filly works fine from the ground in and responds to it with her nose in, which is usually the kicker for me when it comes to 'giving to pressure'. She gets an A++ in that... from the ground...

I like the lead rope idea. I will definitely try that today.

We are working at her pace. Like I said, I never push her. If she's confused I always back up and go slower. The first time I got on her was not to "ride", but to get her used to balancing a heavier rider and get used to things happening over her head (noises, hands waving, reins on her neck, etc). She was relaxed the entire time... didn't even get a mound in her back. Like I said, we stayed in one place.

After warming her up, stretching out her legs, slowly getting the saddle tight enough that it would slip and pinch her, I got on a second time. This time, she took a voluntary step and I let her, just to let her feel what it's like to balance a rider at the walk. If she stopped, I let her. I didn't even use my reins for the beginning. Eventually we got far enough away from the starting point that I wanted to see if she'd go back, so I gave a little leg pressure and asked her to turn. She swung her head a bit, stuck her nose out, but then she did a nice pivot and turned. Didn't last more than 5 - 10 mins.

She doesn't drive. I don't have a roundpen to work in, nor the equipment to teach her. I did attempt getting behind her with really long reins but she just turned and faced me.

Let me break down the filly's attitude... If she sees a human, she will run up to you and sniff you, as well as anything you brought with you. She's VERY curious, but not pushy. She's easy to handle and is never aggressive or feisty. If she is loose in the field and you chase her with a longe whip, she'll swing her head and gallop around you like you're playing, then when you stop, she'll walk up to you. She's extremely forgiving. She learned how to longe on a longeline in less than an hour after having ZERO experience with it before. I mean, she learned to walk when I said "walk", trot when I clicked, and come to me when I said whoa. Seamlessly.
     
    09-21-2010, 01:00 PM
  #6
Started
That is a shank-type hackamore.

This is a picture of a bosal, which is better for an untrained horse.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 220px-Bosal3.jpg (18.6 KB, 207 views)
     
    09-21-2010, 01:13 PM
  #7
Started
Actually a shank hackamore like you are using is not mild and harmless. Because the shanks are so long, the minute you apply pressure to stop or turn her, it is going right to her nose and jaw, she is getting pressure immediately and painfully and because of the shanks, the signals are confusing to her.
The shank hackamore is not something to use on a young untrained horse. A bosal or a snaffle lets you give them pressure, but only as much as you the rider are pulling on the reins.
And yes, the shanked hackamore you are using can and has broken jaws on horses, that is why you usually see horses with this type of hackamore on it throwing its head up. She works from the ground okay with this because you are on her level and applying pressure at her level, when you climb into the saddle you are up above her and when you apple pressure to the reins, she is getting correction and punishment from the nose piece, then getting alot of pressure/pain/correction from the jaw piece(whether its leather or not, it still applies painful pressure to the jaw) because you are above her and when you apply pressure to those 7 or 8" shanks, it is multiplying the correction. She is getting it from the nose to "bend" then getting it from the jaw and wants to throw her head up.
But don't listen to me, I don't know anything.
     
    09-21-2010, 01:20 PM
  #8
Foal
I knew what a bosal was, but I've never used one... nor do I have access to one. Do you think I should just try her halter and lead rope? I've seen a guy do this to my friend's green filly. A rope halter and a long lead rope used as reins. She seemed to respond pretty well to that. Here's a picture:



I'd hate to change things up now since a hackamore is what I've been working with her in, and she understands what I'm asking. I tried her with a full-cheek snaffle once, and she absolutely hated it. I lost her attention. She was focusing on the bit and not me, and she was very frustrated. Someone suggested I take a leather strap through the snaffle rings and run it over her nose so she felt pressure when I pulled back but I'm not sure how I feel about that... what about a bitless bridle? Multibridle? Let me know what you guys think! I want this filly to enjoy her job. After all, she is only being broke to be a family horse, for pleasure.
     
    09-21-2010, 01:31 PM
  #9
Foal
Quote:
Originally Posted by wyominggrandma    
Actually a shank hackamore like you are using is not mild and harmless. Because the shanks are so long, the minute you apply pressure to stop or turn her, it is going right to her nose and jaw, she is getting pressure immediately and painfully and because of the shanks, the signals are confusing to her.
The shank hackamore is not something to use on a young untrained horse. A bosal or a snaffle lets you give them pressure, but only as much as you the rider are pulling on the reins.
And yes, the shanked hackamore you are using can and has broken jaws on horses, that is why you usually see horses with this type of hackamore on it throwing its head up. She works from the ground okay with this because you are on her level and applying pressure at her level, when you climb into the saddle you are up above her and when you apple pressure to the reins, she is getting correction and punishment from the nose piece, then getting alot of pressure/pain/correction from the jaw piece(whether its leather or not, it still applies painful pressure to the jaw) because you are above her and when you apply pressure to those 7 or 8" shanks, it is multiplying the correction. She is getting it from the nose to "bend" then getting it from the jaw and wants to throw her head up.
But don't listen to me, I don't know anything.
I never said you didn't know anything... but I would appreciate it if you didn't make the assumption that I don't know anything. I am always open to others' opinions and suggestions but in the end I am the one that knows this horse, and knows what it responds to. I'm not going to completely change the way this filly has been trained because you think I'm going to break her jaw. When used correctly, it is harmless and can actually be a lot more mild than any bit. She likes it a lot more than she likes any bit put in her mouth. She doesn't exhibit any discomfort or frustration like she does with the bit in her mouth.
     
    09-21-2010, 01:46 PM
  #10
Started
Rope halters are fine for starting out. If the problem with a snaffle is loss of focus, you can put the bridle on her and let her carry it around for 15 or 20 minutes before you start working with her. I've done that with a few, and it has worked well for me.
     

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