Flying lead changes (or just lead changes) - Page 2
 
 

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Flying lead changes (or just lead changes)

This is a discussion on Flying lead changes (or just lead changes) within the Horse Training forums, part of the Training Horses category
  • Trainer ruined horse teaching flying changes
  • How do i do a proper lead change my legs

 
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    05-08-2008, 06:18 AM
  #11
Yearling
Haha yeh Jazzy im alittle confused as well with sonnys explanation

Quote:
flying changes are a advanced movenment and should only be attempted by balanced educated horses.
Well said.

Just a question, why do you need lead changes in Hunter, X country?
     
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    05-08-2008, 09:48 AM
  #12
Banned
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzyrider
sonny youve even managed to confuse me lol both directions you gave were for counter-clockwise :P
I think I only gave one direction...

For Counter: right leg goes back
For Clockwise: left leg goes back

Oooh, right there is that section up. Hehe.
     
    05-08-2008, 11:19 AM
  #13
Trained
I thought Sonny's directions were clear. No problem understanding, but I just didn't get the inside leg applying pressure ON the girth. Seemed backwards to the horse to me. As my horse doesn't know this stuff anyway, I can't confuse her, but now maybe I can try this just at a walk to even start on the correct lead. If she starts out wrong, I'll just stop and try again.

As for only an ADVANCED rider and an EDUCATED horse doing this manuever -- well that's like not hiring someone if they don't have any experience. How are you supposed to get there is no one gives you the chance, huh? As long as us beginners recognize that we are beginners and need to learn, seems good to me.
     
    05-08-2008, 11:32 AM
  #14
Started
Actually, the wiki article on this is pretty good...goes over all three of the common canter aids you'll find in the horse world with explanations.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canter#..._canter_depart
     
    05-08-2008, 01:29 PM
  #15
Weanling
I'll try and explain the flying lead changes for you. They are an advanced maneuver that requires a balanced horse, but are invaluable in the show pen.

First, to ask for a canter in the left lead, keep your horse going straight and use your right leg on the barrel (just behind the girth - I really don't move mine back any) to push your horse's entire body slightly to the left. They should stay straight, though. It's the opposite for the right lead.

To me, there are 3 main things that you have to have to get a good lead change. The first is staightness, from the horses nose, neck, through the shoulder, barrel, and hind end. You can't have your horse leading with one body part, sticking out a shoulder, leaning their barrel on your leg, or leaving their hind end behind. All body parts have to be centered between your leg and hands.

The second thing is forward impulsion. This doesn't mean just going fast. It means the horse driving from his hind end, really reaching underneath himself with his hind legs and going up into your hands. You should be able to feel his hind end driving up and trying to push you up and out of the saddle (but keep your behind in it!).

The third is they have to get off your leg. If you have good lateral movement, like a 1/2 pass or two-track at the walk, trot, and canter, you are way ahead of the game. You don't have to be able to move sideways to that extent, but your horse has to respect your leg. Again, not lean up against it, move forward off of it.

When I'm schooling a horse on lead changes, I always use a large area with good footing. I'll give the sequence for a right to left lead change. I'll canter my horse on the long side of the arena in the right lead, really making sure my horse is straight and moving off his hind end into my hands. I'll make the first corner onto the short end of the arena, again keeping him properly balanced (they should gently bend going around the corners), and keeping that good strong stride rhythm. Going into the second corner, I'll cut across the arena in a diagnol, trying to get the longest possible straight line I can in the entire arena. At first, just practice getting your horse completely straight down that entire line. You can either counter-canter out of it, or stop him when you reach the other corner and you have to turn left.

Once he'll stay staight down the line, I'll use my left leg and move his ENTIRE body over off my left leg and to the right. It's not a big move, more of a shifting of weight, going over 1/2 a step, and just generally getting OFF of my left leg. I'll practice that a few times, making sure he'll move off of it easily.

Once he'll stay straight AND move off of my leg (practice the first two in both directions first so you know he'll get off of both of your legs), I'll make that turn onto the diagnol, get him straight and moving into my hands, use my left leg to move him to the right, and as soon as I feel that shift in body weight I'll completely take my left leg off and drive with my right leg to move his ENTIRE body over to the left. Theoretically, they should change leads if they actually move their body over. It's hard for the horse the first few times, but keep driving with that leg and don't give up. If they start leaning on my right leg, I will take that leg and give them a good thump on the barrel. One warning, though, a lot of horses will kick out or buck when learning a lead change. I personally don't get onto them for it if they actually change leads. Heck, they moved over and did it. However, if they do it at any time other than an actual change, I get onto them for it. After they learn to move over and change, then I start getting after them if they kick out or buck during the change.

The most common problem people have is keeping the horse straight. The shoulder often tries to pop out (if your'e changing from right to left, the shoulder likes to go left). If it does, then they will only change the front lead. If that happens, block with that left rein and really drive them from behind. They may change in back first - if so, just make sure that you aren't driving so much that you're swinging the hind end across and leaving the shoulder behind. If the lead change is real rough and they seem sto stutter during it, they need to be going forward more.

I hope this helps and makes sense. If it's an option, I would have a trainer help you with this, but either way good luck with it!
     
    05-08-2008, 02:30 PM
  #16
Showing
Quote:
Originally Posted by northernmama

As for only an ADVANCED rider and an EDUCATED horse doing this manuever -- well that's like not hiring someone if they don't have any experience. How are you supposed to get there is no one gives you the chance, huh? .
Haha I've been avoiding this thread, I was getting all confused! Sandsarita gave a great reply!
On to my reply:
Northernmama, you're right, but in order to go about getting your flying lead changes correctly, your horse needs to be able to do the following:
- Have proper balance from the hindquarter
- Have impulsion from the hindquarter
- Be able to supple each direction
- Be elastic in movement
- Be able to hold themselves and carry themselves properly, I.e. Not on the forehand; you need to be able to free up the shoulders to get the change

This is all we meant by having an educated horse - they need to BE READY for flying changes; it is a fairly advanced move, one that a horse needs to work towards, they won't be ready to do it TODAY if they haven't learned it yet.
As for the advanced rider part, you just need to know what you're doing. You need to understand EXACTLY what you want from your horse and be able to excecute it in a manner that is understandable to your horse, otherwise you're just going to confuse both yourself and the horse, and not accomplish anything. I would not expect a beginner rider (any beginner) to have the understanding to even fathom being able to teach a horse how to do a flying lead change.
     
    05-08-2008, 02:48 PM
  #17
Weanling
I've been in the learning situation, and I'm still learning. Luckily I had a Dad that was a trainer, and numerous other trainers that helped me tremendously, and still do today.

If you have a horse that already knows how to do a flying lead change on, then go climb on that horse and have whoever owns that horse teach you how to do it on a trained one. It helps tremendously. I was lucky enough that the first horse I ever competed on (outside of walk-trot) knew them inside and out. Now, my old show horse is pulled out of the pasture by one of my old trainers just for that purpose - to teach riders how to correctly ask for one.

When I get back from work, I'll post a video I have of this guy, that contains both good and bad lead changes, so maybe you can see some of what I'm talking about. A good visual is always somebody's friend.

By the way, I agree completely with JDI. Remember to break everything down into parts, and don't go on to the next one unless you can do the first.
     
    05-08-2008, 02:56 PM
  #18
Started
Quote:
Originally Posted by sandsarita
If you have a horse that already knows how to do a flying lead change on, then go climb on that horse and have whoever owns that horse teach you how to do it on a trained one. It helps tremendously. I was lucky enough that the first horse I ever competed on (outside of walk-trot) knew them inside and out. Now, my old show horse is pulled out of the pasture by one of my old trainers just for that purpose - to teach riders how to correctly ask for one.
Amen to that, in this situation, a trained horse can be your best teacher.
     
    05-08-2008, 04:43 PM
  #19
Banned
Quote:
Originally Posted by northernmama
I thought Sonny's directions were clear. No problem understanding, but I just didn't get the inside leg applying pressure ON the girth. Seemed backwards to the horse to me. As my horse doesn't know this stuff anyway, I can't confuse her, but now maybe I can try this just at a walk to even start on the correct lead. If she starts out wrong, I'll just stop and try again.

As for only an ADVANCED rider and an EDUCATED horse doing this manuever -- well that's like not hiring someone if they don't have any experience. How are you supposed to get there is no one gives you the chance, huh? As long as us beginners recognize that we are beginners and need to learn, seems good to me.
usually I don't even put presure on the leg that will be on the girth...I just apply the pressure on the leg that's on the wall.

Mainly for flying lead changes at first you want to start on an educated horse that knows how to do it, to perfect your cues and to be able to get it right time after time. Once you can perfect it then would you try it on a green horse.

Just like they wouldn't put a beginner rider on a green horse, you wouldn't try out something that you are unsure of on a horse that doesn't know the cue...a green horse is easy to confuse and ruin....for training you've got to try as best as possible to get every cue, and every little thing as close to perfect as possible
     
    05-08-2008, 04:45 PM
  #20
Trained
Well, good information all around. Ya, a trained horse would be nice, but ain't going to happen. Luckily I have all the time in the world and low expectations of both me and the horse! I tend to work my goals low and slow. Should be interesting to see if I make any headway over the summer.
Do y'all think it's a good idea to try to get her to *walk* off on the right lead as a start as well as all the other steps as I move along?
     

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