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This is a discussion on Frustrated within the Horse Training forums, part of the Training Horses category

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        08-29-2013, 11:02 PM
    Originally Posted by smrobs    
    It has been explained. Over and over and over but you still fail to get it.
    Unlike the reiner who totally gets it, and needs reminding of that fact
    franknbeans, smrobs and Muppetgirl like this.
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        08-29-2013, 11:11 PM
    Smrobs: no it hasn't.
    What has been explained is what to do if the horse gives a wrong response, and how to fix a broken aspect of a particular maneouver.

    Not responding soon enough (which is what OP asked about), nomatter how right or wrong the eventual response may be, is neither of those problems.

    Muppetgirl: i'm happy to leave it at that if you'd like. But I will respond to those quotes with some more quotes

    "Almost every major systematic error which has deluded men for thousands of years relied on practical experience. Horoscopes, incantations, oracles, magic, witchcraft, the cures of witch doctors and of medical practitioners before the advent of modern medicine, were all firmly established through the centuries in the eyes of the public by their supposed practical successes. The scientific method was devised precisely for the purpose of elucidating the nature of things under more carefully controlled conditions and by more rigorous criteria than are present in the situations created by practical problems" - michael polanyi

    "In order that the facts obtained by observation and experiment may be capable of being used in furtherance of our exact and solid knowledge, they must be apprehended and analysed according to some Conceptions which, applied for this purpose, give distinct and definite results, such as can be steadily taken hold of and reasoned from." - william whewell

    Golden horse: if a reiner "gets it", he won't need reminding of it. Because "getting it" implies they have "got it". And if they have "got it" they wouldn't need reminding.
        08-29-2013, 11:39 PM
    Originally Posted by christopher    

    Golden horse: if a reiner "gets it", he won't need reminding of it. Because "getting it" implies they have "got it". And if they have "got it" they wouldn't need reminding.
    WHAT?? On what planet do you reside? On this planet horses are living breathing creatures that can quite well GET IT, then decide to put two hooves up and think "an inclined plane wrapped helically around an axis you"

    The don't need reminding of the action, they know that perfectly well, remember we are talking of what 99.99% of the horse world will agree is a finished horse, they need reminding that the action happens NOW, not when and if you want it to.

    Now I am going to find an empty piece of wall and gently bang my head against it
        08-30-2013, 12:06 AM
    All that really matters is winning, and if all the big time high level trainers do it then that must make it right and good. Beyond that who cares, no further explanation needed. ;D
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        08-30-2013, 01:03 AM
    If one of my horses, "finished" or not, "puts 2 hooves up" when I asked it something, I wouldnt treat it like a horse who understood what I asked. because understanding what is asked INCLUDES understanding that they have to do it without protest.

    we are talking of what 99.99% of the horse world will agree
    using the fact that it is "commonplace" is just silly. From the michael polanyi quote I gave, i'd guess 99.99% of people at some point genuinely believed in witchcraft. People used to be willing to burn other people alive because they were so sure that witches were real. Willing to kill over it. That was still happening only 300 years ago, and not much can happen evolutionarily to the capabilities of any creatures brain in the space of 300 years, especially one as complex as the human brain. So don't assume we're much more capable of reason than they were. But what happened was: someone scientifically minded came along and objectively questioned the anecdotal or testimonial evidence that convinced the people of the time that witches were real, and there was and still is no scientifically verifiable explanation (a bit like here) presented in defence of that. And we've learned from that process.

    Why is this any different to that? Either way: a question was asked, there's been plenty of testimonies, people willing to stand up for what they believe to be true (which is entirely respectable), plenty of specific examples given and plenty of experience drawn from, but no objective answer.
        08-30-2013, 06:36 AM
    Originally Posted by Golden Horse    
    Now I am going to find an empty piece of wall and gently bang my head against it
    No don't do that, you're supposed to be healing.
        08-30-2013, 10:42 AM
    Originally Posted by anndankev    
    No don't do that, you're supposed to be healing.
    Thanks for reminding me, I'll go away and hide in a padded room somewhere
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        08-30-2013, 12:48 PM
    Ok I don't want to add fuel to the fire, but I'm genuinely curious too. Why is the very popular phrase "ask, tell, make it happen", not "ask, stop your horse and whip it, then ask again"? And why, whenever people ask for training advice, is the first one often recommended and nobody ever says, "if your horse is being lazy, stop it and smack it then try again"? This is the only thread I've seen where this has been discussed so I guess I'm just wondering why it isn't recommended more often if it's a correct and effective training method.
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        08-30-2013, 12:53 PM
    Because it's a very advanced training method that most people cannot utilize correctly or in the right circumstances because they don't have adequate experience/knowledge.

    We're not talking about backyard trail horses here, we're talking reining horses. Most average riders wouldn't even be able to successfully ride a good reiner, let alone train one or give it a tune-up.
        08-30-2013, 12:55 PM
    Alright, I can respect that. Thank you.
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    smrobs and Muppetgirl like this.

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