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        08-31-2013, 10:49 AM
      #141
    Foal
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by franknbeans    
    Ognend-After reading your about some of your "vast" experience, in the only thread other than this you have posted on, Looking for a trail horse for a beginnerI find your treatment of Cherie extremely rude and ignorant. If you have been here more than a handful of times, you know that Cherie, as well as a couple others here who have tried to explain this method, have more knowledge in their pinky finger that most of us, myself included, can hope to have in a lifetime. I have just been fortunate enough to have worked with some trainers like Cherie, watch, listen and absorb, then try techniques myself.

    To even insinuate that Cherie or any of the others of us who use this technique may as well take our horses out and beat them bloody is beyond my comprehension.

    You have only reinforced my opinion of your knowledge by suggesting that we (those who ride reiners) should "lose the shank bits and spurs....."
    I have spent the last four years fully dedicated to studying horsemanship. Have spent time, sweat, tears and money to do it. To be honest, I started with high expectations of the horse but never thought of myself and what the horse may expect of me. A lot has happened in the four years since and in my opinion, doing a thing right from the beginning is better than doing a thing wrong all your life. I have met a few "horse trainers" who have been doing the things wrong all their lives and I can bull*it when I see it.

    There is never an excuse for treating the horse the way she (he?) proposed, plain and simple. I had to say what I had to say, I will let others draw their own conclusions.

    I would say the same thing to anyone, regardless of their experience and who they are. If they have something to say that "beats my argument", let them say it - again, people reading this can take it home and make up their own mind. I am not here to "upset the balance of the horseforum.com world and its leaders", just to state my opinion.

    I have mingled with a few "names" in the "industry". Many of them talk a good talk about "horse being #1" but I have found that this is usually reserved for the student. When their own horse "misbehaves" patience runs very short.... Seen it happen very often. I put this "whip your horse while holding on to his mouth, but he has to be a finished horse" argument dangerous, to say the least, offensive to the horse (to be polite) and stupid, to be perfectly impolite.

    Finally, if you have to say something about what I recommended to the OP and the whole philosophy, please do, no need to attack me personally, attack my arguments instead and point out the error of my ways.

    My $.02
         
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        08-31-2013, 11:42 AM
      #142
    Showing


    4 years? That's about the equivalent of a drop of pee in the ocean regardless of how many books and/or videos you've watched (perhaps even because of that). Did you ever work with an actual trainer or did you gain all your knowledge from books and clinician DVDs?

    How many finished reining horses have you ridden? How many have you successfully trained? How many have you successfully tuned up? Unless you've done all those things repeatedly, then you are just proving yourself a fool to those that have done those things.

    For some reason, I seriously doubt that your knowledge went from "ZOMG, my horse rears and I can't handle it...what do I do?!" to "I know all the inner workings of training and riding a successful reining horse" in just 4 years.

    If I'm wrong, though, I'd gladly change my tune....if you can provide video proof that you can get reining level responses from your horse every single time you ask.
         
        08-31-2013, 11:42 AM
      #143
    Trained
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ognend    
    I have spent the last four years fully dedicated to studying horsemanship. Have spent time, sweat, tears and money to do it. To be honest, I started with high expectations of the horse but never thought of myself and what the horse may expect of me. A lot has happened in the four years since and in my opinion, doing a thing right from the beginning is better than doing a thing wrong all your life. I have met a few "horse trainers" who have been doing the things wrong all their lives and I can bull*it when I see it.

    There is never an excuse for treating the horse the way she (he?) proposed, plain and simple. I had to say what I had to say, I will let others draw their own conclusions.

    I would say the same thing to anyone, regardless of their experience and who they are. If they have something to say that "beats my argument", let them say it - again, people reading this can take it home and make up their own mind. I am not here to "upset the balance of the horseforum.com world and its leaders", just to state my opinion.

    I have mingled with a few "names" in the "industry". Many of them talk a good talk about "horse being #1" but I have found that this is usually reserved for the student. When their own horse "misbehaves" patience runs very short.... Seen it happen very often. I put this "whip your horse while holding on to his mouth, but he has to be a finished horse" argument dangerous, to say the least, offensive to the horse (to be polite) and stupid, to be perfectly impolite.

    Finally, if you have to say something about what I recommended to the OP and the whole philosophy, please do, no need to attack me personally, attack my arguments instead and point out the error of my ways.

    My $.02
    Now-spend about another 50 years doing what you have spent the last 4 doing and you may have some of the knowledge Cherie does. Four years, no matter how much $$ you through at it, books you read, clinics you go to, will EVER equal a lifetime of raising and training horses.

    If you were not attacking the way some of us, including Cherie, train with some of your statements, I would have nothing to say to you. It tends to put people on the offensive when you accuse them of abusive tactics by the way they train. Again, with some of your statements above, you insult us (those of us who have used this with success). If I insinuated that you abused your horse, or were doing something in training because you had lost your patience, or were "whipping" your horse I would like to know how you would take that. You do not know any of us, nor have you even been on here enough to truly make a judgement at all. I stand by my original opinion.

    Best keep your day job. That way you can pay to "mingle" with a few more "names" in the "industry".

    Just MY $.02.
         
        08-31-2013, 02:17 PM
      #144
    Foal
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by smrobs    


    4 years? That's about the equivalent of a drop of pee in the ocean regardless of how many books and/or videos you've watched (perhaps even because of that). Did you ever work with an actual trainer or did you gain all your knowledge from books and clinician DVDs?

    How many finished reining horses have you ridden? How many have you successfully trained? How many have you successfully tuned up? Unless you've done all those things repeatedly, then you are just proving yourself a fool to those that have done those things.

    For some reason, I seriously doubt that your knowledge went from "ZOMG, my horse rears and I can't handle it...what do I do?!" to "I know all the inner workings of training and riding a successful reining horse" in just 4 years.

    If I'm wrong, though, I'd gladly change my tune....if you can provide video proof that you can get reining level responses from your horse every single time you ask.
    I have ridden reining horses, top level performance. I have said what I had to say - you can debate me or you can debate what I said.

    I have hung around top level cutters and reiners and those are my experiences. Your experiences may be different, don't know. It's a free country and I am free to say what I have seen and experienced. Even if it involves offending the cult of personality of someone you obviously adore.

    Four years is plenty if you get the proper exposure and do things the right way. As I said (and tell me if I am wrong), you can spend your whole life around horses and still be "dumb" about them and how to train them.

    My $.02
         
        08-31-2013, 02:21 PM
      #145
    Foal
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by franknbeans    
    Now-spend about another 50 years doing what you have spent the last 4 doing and you may have some of the knowledge Cherie does. Four years, no matter how much $$ you through at it, books you read, clinics you go to, will EVER equal a lifetime of raising and training horses.
    I dare you to go around the country and talk to every "backyard psycho" who grew up around horses - just because you grew up "raising them and training them" doesn't mean you did it the right way. Sorry, those are just facts.

    As for Cherie, sorry, as I said, I did not come here to bust up the cult of personality or break up a clique. Just to say what I wanted to say. You can debate me or you can debate what I said.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Cherie    
    It tends to put people on the offensive when you accuse them of abusive tactics by the way they train. Again, with some of your statements above, you insult us (those of us who have used this with success). If I insinuated that you abused your horse, or were doing something in training because you had lost your patience, or were "whipping" your horse I would like to know how you would take that. You do not know any of us, nor have you even been on here enough to truly make a judgement at all. I stand by my original opinion.
    I do not know you and all I can judge you by is your statements. Unless you are lying when writing, but let's assume you do not.

    "Reining up" a horse while slapping him is stupid AND abusive. Sorry. It shows that your brain has not advanced past your dominant muscle.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Cherie    
    Best keep your day job. That way you can pay to "mingle" with a few more "names" in the "industry".

    Just MY $.02.
    Thank you for the $.02. I will take them as they come.
         
        08-31-2013, 02:48 PM
      #146
    Trained
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ognend    
    As for Cherie, sorry, as I said, I did not come here to bust up the cult of personality or break up a clique. Just to say what I wanted to say. You can debate me or you can debate what I said.
    What is this cult of personality or clique of which you speak?
    franknbeans and Muppetgirl like this.
         
        08-31-2013, 03:41 PM
      #147
    Trained
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ognend    
    I dare you to go around the country and talk to every "backyard psycho" who grew up around horses - just because you grew up "raising them and training them" doesn't mean you did it the right way. Sorry, those are just facts.

    As for Cherie, sorry, as I said, I did not come here to bust up the cult of personality or break up a clique. Just to say what I wanted to say. You can debate me or you can debate what I said.



    I do not know you and all I can judge you by is your statements. Unless you are lying when writing, but let's assume you do not.

    "Reining up" a horse while slapping him is stupid AND abusive. Sorry. It shows that your brain has not advanced past your dominant muscle.



    Thank you for the $.02. I will take them as they come.
    I have no idea how you quoted Cherie on the last 2-those were also mine. So if you are going to quote, at least get it right.

    Just my $.03.
         
        08-31-2013, 04:01 PM
      #148
    Trained
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by franknbeans    

    Just my $.03.
    Inflation is running wild, and Canada killed the penny, so I have to go with

    Just my $0.05 CAD
    franknbeans and Bagheera like this.
         
        08-31-2013, 07:15 PM
      #149
    Foal
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Golden Horse    
    What is this cult of personality or clique of which you speak?
    Well, so far all the answers to my initial post were about my "attack"on Cherie, not about what I actually said. Someone told me that four years of learning horsemanship are nothing next to her, apparently I will need at least extra 50 years...
         
        08-31-2013, 07:17 PM
      #150
    Foal
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by franknbeans    
    I have no idea how you quoted Cherie on the last 2-those were also mine. So if you are going to quote, at least get it right.

    Just my $.03.
    Apologies - it must have been in the copy/paste buffer.
         

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