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Galloping & One Rein Stop

This is a discussion on Galloping & One Rein Stop within the Horse Training forums, part of the Training Horses category
  • Martingale with stoppage
  • Horse is dropping it's head when galloping

 
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    01-08-2010, 02:17 PM
  #101
Trained
Quote:
Originally Posted by lacyloo    
See this post sounds alot better and I agree with you there, heck everybody better agree with it!
(although my other post wasn't directed towards you).
I didn't think it was, but I figured I'd clarify anyway. And in scanning the posts before me, I didn't notice any mention that the one-rein-stop is for emergencies only [granted, I only scanned, so I could have missed it] and wanted to make sure at least someone read it. =P

And to the OP, it was very big of you to apologize, I wish more posters would. I really wish you the best of luck. You've been given several different methods, so pick or alter what you think will work best, and like you said, just work your way down the list until you find something that will benefit both you and your horse. I commend you for thinking of what's best for him as well. He doesn't need to learn to stop just for your safety, but his as well. =]
     
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    01-08-2010, 08:22 PM
  #102
Weanling
Quote:
Originally Posted by Horse Poor    
Neon - YOU have taught him that is is okay to run in open fields - so that is what he thinks is acceptable. Don't allow him to run when he wants and the problem will be fixed. You KNOW he can gallop - get him to gallop in the arena where you have more control. Sure he stops on a dime at a W/T/C - you've practiced it…but you haven't practiced stopping at the gallop. The reason he is hard to control at a gallop is the only time he gallops is when "you let him" (I take this to mean that HE picks up the pace and you don't do anything about it) and that is always the same place - the open field. Practice galloping and stopping him in the arena, and your problem should disappear.
Lol no. I asked him to. Like, quite obviously asked him to go. He doesn't bolt off when he sees a field. He will walk very calmly through it if I ask it of him. It's once I ask him to run, that sometimes I cannot stop him.
Someone asked me why I gallop: because it's incredible. I won't be doing it as much until I am sure he will stop for me, but I love the feeling of it.

I will try getting him to go in the arena but until spring, when I can use the outdoor, there simply isn't enough room in the indoor. I don't know if honestly there's enough room in the outdoor either.
     
    01-08-2010, 08:28 PM
  #103
Weanling
Quote:
Originally Posted by RiosDad    
Did anyone notice that in both video's it is about strength. The second video really talks about the muscle of the arm to gain strength. The first one was about leverage, wedging the left hand in the crest of the neck and putting all the pull in the right.
While I don't disagree it is about STRENGHT
The curb is about adding leverage, adding strength to the rider?? Why not just use it in the first place with a problem horse?
Did you also note that in the second video the guy used a running martingale?? Here again it adds strength.
For those that want to keep the snaffle why not add the running martingale? It will double your strength when needed and at the same time do nothing if the horse doesn't resist??

Both of these videos are basically showing different ways to haul on the horses mouth. Are they not cruel? Abusive??

To the OP try a running martingale adjusted properly and you might be suprised at the added control.
Hey awesome, I will try that. I actually already have one of those. I confess, I do not know how to adjust one properly. I will look it up, as well as ask my trainer, but would you care to try and explain for me?
     
    01-08-2010, 08:32 PM
  #104
Super Moderator
Well, if the running martingale is adjusted PROPERLY, it will only affect the horse when its head is way up in the air....which is not conducive to galloping. I would very much not recommend adjusting the running so short it will "double" your strength. It will make it way too severe, pulling the bit onto the horse's mouth bars too often.

The videos show an emergency stop. Not one you use every time you slow the horse down. It is meant to be used as just that....an emergency.

The mis adjusted running martingale will punish your horse all the time.
     
    01-08-2010, 08:37 PM
  #105
Banned
If the only issue you have with your horse is that you can't stop easily from the gallop, a running martingale isn't likely to be the solution.

Adjusted correctly, it puts downward direct pressure on the bars of the horse's mouth if the horse lifts its head above the effective range of the bit and releases that pressure when the horse drops its head back into the effective range. Adusted incorrectly it's either ineffective or abusive - too long, it's ineffective - too short, it applies the pressure continuously and no matter what the horse does and is abusive.

I think RiosDad is recommending you use it as a leverage device - raise your hands high enough that the rings on the martingale act as pulleys and increase the force you use on the bit. If your horse has stretched his head and neck out in the gallop this is going to be hard to execute.

Everything I've read in this thread up til now indicates your horse is a pretty nice, pretty well behaved guy with a behavioral or training issue in *one* area.

RiosDad's solution is designed for an extreme situation and for a horse with no respect for the aids at all. From your posts, I'm just not getting that that's your situation.
     
    01-08-2010, 08:39 PM
  #106
Weanling
Quote:
Originally Posted by maura    
If the only issue you have with your horse is that you can't stop easily from the gallop, a running martingale isn't likely to be the solution.

Adjusted correctly, it puts downward direct pressure on the bars of the horse's mouth if the horse lifts its head above the effective range of the bit and releases that pressure when the horse drops its head back into the effective range. Adusted incorrectly - too long, it's ineffective - too short, it's applies the pressure no matter what the horse does and it abusive.

I think RiosDad is recommending you use it as a leverage device - raise your hands high enough that the rings on the martingale act as pulleys and increase the force you use on the bit. If your horse has stretched his head and neck out in the gallop this is going to be hard to execute effectively.

Everything I've read in this thread up til now indicates your horse is a pretty nice, pretty well behaved guy with a behavioral or training issue in *one* area.

RiosDad's solution is designed for an extreme situation and for a horse with no respect for the aids at all. From your posts, I'm just not getting that that's your situation.
You know, that's true. I was just thinking about how it wouldn't really have any effect when his head is level with the rest of his body. I don't think it'd really make a difference.
And no, I wouldn't be cranking it way down on him either, don't worry. I'm definitely going to teach myself that emergency stop. Not the one-rein stop, the emergency stop.
     
    01-08-2010, 11:59 PM
  #107
Started
[quote=RiosDad;514327]Who cares how it is done as long as the horse learns who is master.

I care. I care that Iv'e done right by my horse and that he listens to me because I've put a proper foundation on him, not just because I've slapped a harsher bit in his mouth....he is responding to pain, not ME. The horse doens't need to know "who is master".....please....they aren't dogs.

As for a quick fix? What is wrong with that. I have broken a few run aways for people ready to send them to the meat market. I do the quick fix with the curb bit and the people end up keeping the horse??

You only care about the result....not how it's done or what it does to the horse in the long run.

Who cares again about communication when the horse is running away with you? The only communication I want is a dead stop NOW.

The horse is running away because his flight instinct has kicked in...which is due to fear/lack of confidence. This is really the rider's fault because he didn't respect the horse's thresholds and has probably pushed the horse past a point where he was comfortable. If the horse simply spooked and won't stop, that's a foundation issue that wasn't addressed in the horse's initial training.

Problems are caused by people with an attidute of reasoning with a horse instead of saying "this is the way it is going to be so get use to it"

No, problems are caused by two kinds of people. People who use only love love love, and people who will use force to get the horse to comply. People who are TRUE horseman do not resort to harsher bits and quick fixes to get desired results.

I ride with gentle people, I see them in all the boarding barns and I see problems created by these people and when it reaches a boiling point people like me are called in and we fix it and being gentle all the time, reasoning all the time is not going to do it.
Going back to fundimentals at a time of stress is not doing dick.
Pick a bigger more aggressive bit and when the horse runs, yell WHOA, brace yourself and let him have it with all you got.
He will learn quickly that he can not run through you and the word WHOA means something.
To be soft first you have to be hard.

I'd rather work WITH my horse, establishing good control, confidence, respect and understanding through a proper foundation than causing pain to my horse. But hey, what do I know, the fact that I've rehabilitated my previously dangerous, vicious, unpredictable, biting and kicking warmblood who had to wear a metal muzzle when around people, and who would rear under saddle when asked to go, probably means nothing
     
    01-09-2010, 09:04 AM
  #108
Banned
Quote:
Originally Posted by Allison Finch    
Well, if the running martingale is adjusted PROPERLY, it will only affect the horse when its head is way up in the air....which is not conducive to galloping. The mis adjusted running martingale will punish your horse all the time.


Exactly. A running martingale only interfers with the normal feel of the reins IF the horse throws his head up. All other times it does nothing. Adjust it so if the horse is running along with a normal head carriage the line from the bit to your hands is NOT interfered with by the running martingale. Only when the horse throws his head up does the martingale pull the reins down. If the horse is running normal you and him do not even know the martingale is there.
In the emergency stop you will notice the horse throw his head up. It throws it's head up to escape the bit. At his point the martingale prevents the horse from both throwing his head up and escaping the bit. The horse also pulls himself up. Since your hands are fixed for the stop , the martingale is pulling the head down when the horse throws his head up he will in fact be pulling himself up.
Try it. What have you got to loose?? Unless you experiment with things how do you know they will not work.
As for abuse it is in your hands to make anything, ANYTHING abusive or not. Be gentle and when the horse misbehaves stop being gentle and shut him down.

The only martingale I like are the ones coming up between the front legs and having a loop around the neck.
I do NOT like the ones that clip to a breast collar.
And running martingales are used by alot of trainers, famous trainers..


Borrow one and just try it in the arena. If you don't like it discard it.
Experiment
     
    01-09-2010, 10:01 AM
  #109
Banned
I was just out cleaning stalls and this martingale thing is getting to me. I will take this one last time on this post to try and explain it.
If you look at the 1st video of the one rein braced stop. The left hand clamps the shortened rein to the horse's neck while the right hand calls for the stop. The first thing the horse does is throw his head high. What this does is pull on the left fixed hand so the horse is actually pulling on himself. He is applying the pull by just raising his head. The right hand yes is applying part of the pull but the horse is using his own strength, raising the head to apply even more pressure.
While this works it is also hard to do in the field under running conditions. The horse bolts and usually you try pulling him up but he raises his head and keeps right on running.. As the video says you slide your left hand up the rein and then clamp it on the neck?? But the horse is running hard, you already have pulled, the head is up and you are suppose to slide you left hand along the rein?? What if you drop it?? This is not easy.

With the running martingale which does nothing unless the horse pulls his head up is just lightly resting on the reins. The horse runs and you pull up. The first thing that happens is the horse puts his head up and suddenly the running martingale comes into play. Your simple pull has cause the horse to brace against the martingale and he is pulling himself down just like the first video.

NO you do not raise your hands, the horse is doing the work for you, he is pulling on himself and the minute he stops and lowers his head all force goes away.

I might not be explaining it well but it works great, adds double at least the power to a rider and allows you to continue to use a snaffle.

I will drop the running martingale posting for now but try it, It works and isn't abusive under any condition.
Good luck
Wish I could be there to watch and advise.
     
    01-09-2010, 10:24 AM
  #110
Banned
Spirithorse. I don't buy this run away is out of fear. Really I don't care anyway. The horse runs when it gets going and the owner can't stop him. Nothing is more frightening then that and it should never be allowed. I don't care the the devil himself is after the horse he should listen at all times.
Also as to the quick fix? The horse is on his way to the meat market, I have a single chance to show the owner that the horse will stop and I do a 2 two hard stops, ones that shake the horse to the core but the 3rd stop is just a voice command only.. I don't care how it is done , only the results and the result is the owner gains confidence, gains a horse that stops and maybe, just maybe saves the horses life.
I do get the owner to try it right away. It works and so the horse got roughed up a bit?
We live in a society that has rules.Rules that are enforced with consequences?? Try breaking a rule and then tell the law that you were afraid, you didn't understand?? See how far it gets you.
Forget the speed limit, do as you please and see how it turns out.

From the minute I start a horse I define the rules, the boundries that he must live within and step outside those boundries and all hell breaks loose.
I don't yell, push them around or abuse them UNTIL they step outside my rules. If an animal knows the rules, living within them keeps the animal safe, keeps me safe and he quickly learns what those rules are.
I have trained champion animals in alot of fields and know this to be true.

If you want a reliable horse, one not trained to certian conditons but one that can run into the unexpected and yet handle it like it was regular training you need to teach the horse what is acceptable and what is not.

My Champion German shepherd is laying on the mat in front of the door sleeping. I approach to lock the door. The sheperd feels/hears me coming and opens one eye, no movement just opens one eye. I reach over and lock the door and he goes right back to sleep.
But if I am going out I approach him the same way but softly say MOVE and he jumps up and moves to allow me to go out.
I didn't raise my voice, I approached the same as always, he is comfortable knowing the rules but he responds instantly to a command.
If he did not move my foot would have moved him. I know you think it is cruel, kicking the dog but he knows I would never do that to him if he stays within the rules.
By the way he holds 13 titles.
I have competed in different classes by just reading the rule book the night before, understanding the rules and explaining them to him at the trial , during the competition and win.
He understands the command and obeys it under any situation.
I want my horse which by the way I treat as a dog, I talk to him expecting him to understand, I talk to him, teach him commands and under any and all situations I expect him to obey.

As for breaking one bad horse, try a dozen. Try it in a short time frame.
I use to spend my Sunday mornings breaking rental horses of bad habit picked up with bad riders during the week. Some I never saw before but never hesitated to climb aboard no matter what.
     

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