Gentle bit for a two year old? - Page 3
   

       The Horse Forum > Training Horses > Horse Training

Gentle bit for a two year old?

This is a discussion on Gentle bit for a two year old? within the Horse Training forums, part of the Training Horses category
  • "there are no bad hores just bad riders"

 
LinkBack Thread Tools
    10-23-2009, 01:18 PM
  #21
Showing
Quote:
Originally Posted by RiosDad    
The last part is the truth.. "it's the riders fault" 99% of the problems out there are the riders fault, not the horse, not the lack of training but the RIDERS FAULT.
There are no bad horse, just bad riders.
Like I said earlier I ride problem horse and the runaways, the buckers, the barn sour horse etc etc all seem to disappear within minutes under the proper hands.
I have soft hands, very gentle hands but they can become mean if I don't get the response I want .
This is just an example.
If I wanted to teach you to duck and I taped you on the shoulder as a signal to duck how long would it take you until the proper response to a tap is to duck??
Now if I tapped you on the shoulder and then hit you over the head with a 2 x4 how long would it take you to learn to duck at the slightest tap on the shoulder???

No sometimes you have got to be rougher to get a soft horse and if you think it is through fear then you know nothing.

I do not hit horse except if they bite me and then it is whatever I have in my hands he gets in the chops.
Question then: why couldn't you just tell me that you wanted me to duck when you tapped my shoulder? Sure, you could whack me over the head, but why not explain what you want first?
You could whack, you get the desired response, but is it really the BEST way to get your desired response? There are a hundred other ways to explain it where I don't end up concussed, or hurt in the least.
Riding is the exact same way - you just can't use words. Instead, you explain to the horse what you want through body language and artificial aids like a bridle.
I certainly wouldn't expect ANYONE to respond to a tap on the shoulder with ducking - but explaining what you want first will usually yield good results. I certainly wouldn't even think if "whacking over the head with a 2x4" anywhere near the top of the list of things I would try first.
     
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
    10-23-2009, 01:19 PM
  #22
Showing
Quote:
Originally Posted by RiosDad    
I ride in a roller copper snaffle and I hardly get to use the reins, it is all body language and the weight of the reins. So what is your point?

Your point seemed to be that a lot of horses who are ridden in mild bits are spoiled or heavy on the hand, I was offering an example where that isn't the case.
     
    10-23-2009, 01:19 PM
  #23
Banned
I mentioned reins so I will elongate on that. I ride in 3/4 inch 7 foot long good quality heavy leather riens. I don't tie a knot in them and if I get dumped I have something to hang onto. I also have something to ground tie the horse with. I also expect if he runs off he steps on one and I hope he gives himself a good jerk.
I do not believe in synthetic light weight reins , ones that the horse can't feel. I want him to feel the reins, I want him to feel when I pick them up, when I lay one on his neck. The weight of the reins signals him that I want something to happen and if I start taking the slack out of them he slows down, if I lift them higher he stops, if my hand moves off center he turns to correct this offcenter ness.

The weight of the reins are all you should need if the body cues don't work first. The bit is only back up to me, not the primary control but the emergency brake so to speak
     
    10-23-2009, 01:22 PM
  #24
Showing
I agree - in the western world. I haven't a clue why anyone would want a lightweight rein.
In the english world though, we keep constant contact (read: not hanging on the horse's mouth, but a light contact) throughout the ride. I have a feel for the horse's jaw and tongue. I certainly don't need to haul on the reins, the slightest wiggle of a finger is all that I need to communicate to a horse's sensitive mouth what I want.
I should also mention that riding should never come from the hands first - SEAT, leg, hand.
     
    10-23-2009, 02:00 PM
  #25
Banned
Quote:
Originally Posted by JustDressageIt    
Question then: why couldn't you just tell me that you wanted me to duck when you tapped my shoulder? Sure, you could whack me over the head, but why not explain what you want first?
You could whack, you get the desired response, but is it really the BEST way to get your desired response? .
You teach a horse to stop, lots of stops from a walk in the round pen or arena. You sit back, say Whoa and touch the reins. How long to do keep at this to teach the horse to have a good solid stop with just gentle reminder?? NOw try this, you give the cue and then set the horse down hard??? A hard shut down a couple of times after the initial training gets you a long way towards having a horse with a solid stop and no bit used.
If you shut a horse down hard they quickly learn that your sitting back and a simple HO gets the desired response. A horse that doens't take another step and stands rooted to the ground.
Who is being gentle?? The person that continuelly nags the horse about his stop or the one that has been shut down hard a few times and from then on stops with a simple cue and no reins??
     
    10-23-2009, 02:20 PM
  #26
Banned
Quote:
Originally Posted by JustDressageIt    
Question then: why couldn't you just tell me that you wanted me to duck when you tapped my shoulder? Sure, you could whack me over the head, but why not explain what you want first?
You could whack, you get the desired response, but is it really the BEST way to get your desired response? There are a hundred other ways to explain it where I don't end up concussed, or hurt in the least.
Riding is the exact same way - you just can't use words. Instead, you explain to the horse what you want through body language and artificial aids like a bridle.
I certainly wouldn't expect ANYONE to respond to a tap on the shoulder with ducking - but explaining what you want first will usually yield good results. I certainly wouldn't even think if "whacking over the head with a 2x4" anywhere near the top of the list of things I would try first.
No 2 x 4's were used in the training of horses but it was an example of using roughness to get the desired effect. I could tell you to duck when I touched your shoulder but after a few warnings the 2 x 4 would help it sink in. First you ask nicely and after repeated asking you use a little force and it sinks in.
I have a very pretty girl in my class that insists on wearing openned toed sandles in my class. I have asked her over and over again to NOT wear Sandles in my classroom but she always forgets.. One day I told her that if she wears sandles in my class room after today I would pick her up and carry her out of the lab for her own safety.
I keep hoping she will forget but she has never again entered my classroom with sandles. DAM
     
    10-23-2009, 04:28 PM
  #27
Super Moderator
I use little to no contact english. I think it depends on the style of your riding, the amount of rein preasure you use. For one of my horses I don't even touch my reins for the whoa. For another, I do. Ones hunt trained, ones pleasure trained...
     
    10-23-2009, 05:37 PM
  #28
Showing
Quote:
Originally Posted by farmpony84    
I use little to no contact english. I think it depends on the style of your riding, the amount of rein preasure you use. For one of my horses I don't even touch my reins for the whoa. For another, I do. Ones hunt trained, ones pleasure trained...
Farmpony, I do have to remark here that I believe you do HUS? Which to me is more WP with english tack. I'm not trying to be mean or anything like that, but it is definitely watered-down. (And you guys are allowed to outfit a Dee ring with a curb chain haha) With dressage/jumpers/hunters, you want to keep a good steady contact with your horse. You want them to move from your seat and your leg, but support with the rein. You want a light contact in the sense that you aren't playing tug-of-war.
     
    10-23-2009, 06:31 PM
  #29
Weanling
Well here is Pearl wearing her bridle for the second time ever :) as you can see she was quite happy to mouth it xP

I would just like to make it clear that I won't be riding her for months, this is just so I can long rein her.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Midnight Mistic Pay The Piper 23-10-09 006.jpg (44.8 KB, 39 views)
     
    10-23-2009, 07:02 PM
  #30
Foal
Loose-ring french link to get them used to the bridle. I find a lot of horses like the extra 'play' it gives them.

Then, once you start working on steering, either a d-ring or a full cheek to help with lateral control.

As for the mini discussion about roughness, '2X4s' and 'sitting a horse down' aren't the ways I personally like to work with horses. I understand it works for you, and I'm happy it does. I have the utmost respect for your methods. But, it's personally not for me.

Now, I'm not against giving a horse what-for if it's necessary. Things that concern safety and flat out aggression/defiance/rudeness I don't mess around with. The rest of the time, I like using as little pressure as possible but as much as necessary, especially with green horses.

For example, I put on a gentle leg aid to go forward. I get no response. With a schooled horse, I may go straight for my crop/spur. They know better, they're just being lazy. However, with a green horse who doesn't understand, I'll put my leg on stronger. If I get a response, great. If I don't, I again increase my aid. Eventually I may get to the crop stage, but I give horses more chances because they're trying to figure it out.
     

Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
new mare - be gentle farmpony84 Horse Riding Critique 61 08-20-2009 10:46 PM
Protective mare... how to gentle the foal? RubaiyateBandit Horse Training 4 06-23-2009 11:45 AM
New Here But a Few Drawings: Please Be Gentle abbottinc Horse Artwork 8 01-17-2009 03:16 PM
Gentle Giants My2Geldings Horse Videos 3 04-25-2008 06:36 PM
be gentle she is 18 prettypalfrey Horse Riding Critique 15 05-12-2007 12:02 PM



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:58 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0