Getting Worse For Farrier
 
 

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Getting Worse For Farrier

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        06-21-2014, 08:41 PM
      #1
    Foal
    Getting Worse For Farrier

    I have had my horse for 9 months now and today he was shod for the 5th time. This was also his worst time yet. After a certain point, he just decides it's time to stop and he tries to jerk his leg back. He has had 2 different farriers and acted this way for both. Both did very well about not letting him take his legs back. He even did it a little to me when trying to pick his hooves this morning. I had my daughter stand in front and when he jerked, I held, after he stopped jerking, I dropped it and my daughter made him move his feet. That helped a great deal, but that's obviously not going to work for the farrier as the quarters are very confined. Any suggestions? He is a 4 year old (or will be the end of July).
         
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        06-22-2014, 12:32 AM
      #2
    Foal
    I am open to suggestions. Thanks!
         
        06-22-2014, 02:59 AM
      #3
    Yearling
    Really you just need to keep working with him on picking up his feet. On a young horse that I'm teaching I'll pick up feet and set back down before they have a chance to try to take it back, praise & give a scratch in a favorite spot. Eventually working our way up to longer times.

    For a horse that already knows what it's supposed to do and is just being a butthead, then it's time to learn I'm not going to let them put it down. I hold on the best I can and if they get it away from me I pick it right back up and keep doing the same until they quit fighting. They will get a firm "NO" anytime I feel the leg tense up. No & good boy/girl are the first words they learn around here.

    No matter which method I use, I progress to rubbing my hand across the bottom of their hoof, to patting it, to a rasp, then pecking on it with a hammer.
    lovebearsall likes this.
         
        06-22-2014, 09:29 AM
      #4
    Green Broke
    I am sorry but you asked the question

    1. The horse might have some arthritis in his leg(s) and it hurts when the nails get pounded in.

    2. There are holes in the training and not the horse's.

    I am sorry but, and I quote:
    Quote:
    I have had my horse for 9 months now and today he was shod for the 5th time. This was also his worst time yet.


    You are doing something wrong and my suggestion is to get an experienced horse person to help you. It doesn't have to be a professional trainer. Someone with a lot of years handling horses, maybe even one of the farriers?

    At any rate, you are letting the horse get away with too much. It has been giving you subtle warning signs all along but those signs have been ignored so he is taking more and more liberties.

    This comes under the category of new (or newer) horse owners who say "this is not the same horse I bought xxx months ago"

    If it took nine months and five shoeings for the horse to get to this point, it must be long-suffering and have the temperance of Job.

    Please get some help from a person who can physically be there, before what sounds to be a great horse gets ruined

    Also, it doesn't matter how old your daughter is, it was not safe to
    Quote:
    I had my daughter stand in front and when he jerked, I held, after he stopped jerking,


    You are very lucky the horse didn't decide to jerk forward and step on her. Horses as a rule do not want to trample people but standing someone in front of an 1,100 pound animal to stop it, is not at all safe.
    .Delete. and Palomine like this.
         
        06-22-2014, 12:45 PM
      #5
    Trained
    Assuming no pain or stiffness in going on in the legs, this is a pure training issue. Every day, pick up each leg and hold it. Start with just picking it up and putting it back down. Gradually increase the time you hold the leg. Any time the horse fights you, do not put the leg back down. Hold onto it and find a word cue or use a growl or something else the horse associates with having done something naughty. Do not pull back on the leg. It will only escalate a fight that you cannot win on size alone. As soon as the horse relaxes the leg, gently put it back down. This is not a fun exercise, but a necessary one. Be extremely careful with the hind legs. Obviously you cannot put yourself in danger, but hold onto the legs if at all possible until you get the relaxed leg. Unless your horse has zero respect for you, most learn what is expected of them quickly.

    Once you can pick up, hold and put down all 4 legs without struggle, move onto tapping each foot with a hoof pick or something else metal. It helps the horse get used to the tapping that they will feel when the farrier is nailing the shoes.

    With young horses, it is also good to know how your farrier deals with this situation. A good farrier will firmly but gently hold the leg when a horse acts up and wait for it to relax. The ones who violently or angrily pull back on the leg will only teach your horse that farriers are scary and it will only get worse. Some horses on conformation alone simply cannot have their hind legs held up very high. Some need to be lunged before shoeing to help loosen up their legs. Some need bute the night before for the same reason. Regardless of the answer, it is your problem and not the farrier's. Fix the problem, find your horse's comfort zone for the hind legs and communicate well with your farrier about what you find.
         
        06-22-2014, 02:27 PM
      #6
    Foal
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by MyBoyPuck    
    Assuming no pain or stiffness in going on in the legs, this is a pure training issue. Every day, pick up each leg and hold it. Start with just picking it up and putting it back down. Gradually increase the time you hold the leg. Any time the horse fights you, do not put the leg back down. Hold onto it and find a word cue or use a growl or something else the horse associates with having done something naughty. Do not pull back on the leg. It will only escalate a fight that you cannot win on size alone. As soon as the horse relaxes the leg, gently put it back down. This is not a fun exercise, but a necessary one. Be extremely careful with the hind legs. Obviously you cannot put yourself in danger, but hold onto the legs if at all possible until you get the relaxed leg. Unless your horse has zero respect for you, most learn what is expected of them quickly.

    Once you can pick up, hold and put down all 4 legs without struggle, move onto tapping each foot with a hoof pick or something else metal. It helps the horse get used to the tapping that they will feel when the farrier is nailing the shoes.

    With young horses, it is also good to know how your farrier deals with this situation. A good farrier will firmly but gently hold the leg when a horse acts up and wait for it to relax. The ones who violently or angrily pull back on the leg will only teach your horse that farriers are scary and it will only get worse. Some horses on conformation alone simply cannot have their hind legs held up very high. Some need to be lunged before shoeing to help loosen up their legs. Some need bute the night before for the same reason. Regardless of the answer, it is your problem and not the farrier's. Fix the problem, find your horse's comfort zone for the hind legs and communicate well with your farrier about what you find.
    This is exactly what I've been doing, but not every day. I'll move to a more consistent schedule and see what happens. Thanks for the suggestion.
         
        06-22-2014, 03:53 PM
      #7
    Foal
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by walkinthewalk    
    I am sorry but you asked the question

    1. The horse might have some arthritis in his leg(s) and it hurts when the nails get pounded in.

    2. There are holes in the training and not the horse's.

    I am sorry but, and I quote:

    You are doing something wrong and my suggestion is to get an experienced horse person to help you. It doesn't have to be a professional trainer. Someone with a lot of years handling horses, maybe even one of the farriers?

    At any rate, you are letting the horse get away with too much. It has been giving you subtle warning signs all along but those signs have been ignored so he is taking more and more liberties.

    This comes under the category of new (or newer) horse owners who say "this is not the same horse I bought xxx months ago"

    If it took nine months and five shoeings for the horse to get to this point, it must be long-suffering and have the temperance of Job.

    Please get some help from a person who can physically be there, before what sounds to be a great horse gets ruined

    Also, it doesn't matter how old your daughter is, it was not safe to

    You are very lucky the horse didn't decide to jerk forward and step on her. Horses as a rule do not want to trample people but standing someone in front of an 1,100 pound animal to stop it, is not at all safe.
    Ok, I had to take some time to think this through before I responded, and I'm still having to hit the back button a LOT. Lol

    Around here, it is not the general mentality that it is the owner's responsibility to teach a horse how to be shod. It was not until I started reading through this forum that I learned some expect that. That being said, I have taken it upon myself to try to train my horse. I WANT to make the farrier's job as easy as possible and I am WILLING to put in the work to make it happen. I just need someone to steer me in the right direction, which is why I posted the question here. None of the farriers, when asked, have offered suggestions on how I can help. They just tell me he is young and he'll get better. I had another horse who was simply HORRIBLE for the farrier. I actually let him go because he got so bad. It turned out he had kissing spines though and I'm convinced that was his issue. He had 3 different farriers (one just got too high in price and the second moved away), and I asked them ALL what I could do to make their job easier and they all told me the same thing I am now being told about DJ. He just needs time. Obviously that was not the case with Eeyore as he had pain, but with DJ, I do believe this is the case-he needs time. I will continue to work with him and the farrier I am using is very good about not letting him get away with it. Thank you for giving your opinion.

    As far as how I handle my horse-I'm just not going to comment on that part.
         
        06-22-2014, 04:11 PM
      #8
    Super Moderator
    Wherever I've lived I've found that good farriers tend to be in short supply and so in high demand which means that they do expect owners to prepare their horses for what's required of them by the farrier - to stand still for as long as it takes and to deal with the filing & banging noise and sensation of that on their feet - all things we can do. The actual nailing is something the farrier has to do but provided they're doing the job correctly its not hurting the horse
    When your horse starts fidgeting does it seem as if its done out of discomfort or simply because he's got fed up of standing there and decides to call the shots?
    Have you tried just tying the horse up and leaving the farrier to get on with it?
    I ask because once a horse in my care has accepted everything the farrier has to do I never hold them because I find that they're more likely to move around trying to interact with a person holding them or intimidate that person than they do if tied up and ignored
         
        06-22-2014, 04:19 PM
      #9
    Foal
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jaydee    
    Wherever I've lived I've found that good farriers tend to be in short supply and so in high demand which means that they do expect owners to prepare their horses for what's required of them by the farrier - to stand still for as long as it takes and to deal with the filing & banging noise and sensation of that on their feet - all things we can do. The actual nailing is something the farrier has to do but provided they're doing the job correctly its not hurting the horse
    When your horse starts fidgeting does it seem as if its done out of discomfort or simply because he's got fed up of standing there and decides to call the shots?
    Have you tried just tying the horse up and leaving the farrier to get on with it?
    I ask because once a horse in my care has accepted everything the farrier has to do I never hold them because I find that they're more likely to move around trying to interact with a person holding them or intimidate that person than they do if tied up and ignored
    Thank you for the reply, and yes, he is tied. I just found this article and it really seems to pinpoint DJ's issue. Cole Henderson Farrier Services For those who can't see the link, the long and short of it is balance. After standing for a certain amount of time, he seems to get off balance and in the process of trying to catch himself, he struggles to get his legs back. He'll stand fine for a while, then just try to get the leg back. This last time, he was fighting the flies A LOT and when he would move to try to chase a fly, he'd get himself WAY off balance.
         
        06-22-2014, 04:38 PM
      #10
    Super Moderator
    I've found the balance thing to be an issue with lots of young horses or horses with arthritic or discomfort of some sort and the farriers I've used make allowances for them by giving them a standing break before they start to struggle - that little bit of time they have to adjust themselves actually saves time in the long run.
    Flies are a pain at this time of year - spray the horse really well and use things like sticky poles and spray dispensers around the place - we also have fans running that seem to help blow the flies away and my farrier always brings a portable fan with him that he places just far enough away to not be a hazard to the horse and that also helps blow the flies away
    lovebearsall and JCnGrace like this.
         

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