Getting Worse For Farrier - Page 2

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Getting Worse For Farrier

This is a discussion on Getting Worse For Farrier within the Horse Training forums, part of the Training Horses category

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    06-22-2014, 04:43 PM
Originally Posted by jaydee    
I've found the balance thing to be an issue with lots of young horses or horses with arthritic or discomfort of some sort and the farriers I've used make allowances for them by giving them a standing break before they start to struggle - that little bit of time they have to adjust themselves actually saves time in the long run.
Flies are a pain at this time of year - spray the horse really well and use things like sticky poles and spray dispensers around the place - we also have fans running that seem to help blow the flies away and my farrier always brings a portable fan with him that he places just far enough away to not be a hazard to the horse and that also helps blow the flies away
Unfortunately, I take him TO the farrier and he is an Amish guy, so no electricity. He is Borntregger Amish at that, so no generator allowed either. :( I thought about taking my own generator and fan and see if he would allow me to use it, but haven't done that yet. I do spray them well, but it sure doesn't seem to be doing ANY good!!! I use a vinegar based mixture. I've tried vinegar and Pine Sol, vinegar and Basic H, vinegar and Permethrin, all of it, and nothing seems to work for more than about a minute!
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    06-22-2014, 04:49 PM
Super Moderator
Have you considered looking for a new farrier. You say that the horse gets worse each time he's done - is it possible that the farrier is part of the problem?
Does he shoe the horse in a barn where the flies tend to not hang out so much?
Golden Horse likes this.
    06-22-2014, 05:18 PM
Originally Posted by jaydee    
Have you considered looking for a new farrier. You say that the horse gets worse each time he's done - is it possible that the farrier is part of the problem?
Does he shoe the horse in a barn where the flies tend to not hang out so much?
See, I always get in trouble for making a short story long, but when I try to make it short, I end up having to go back and explain. Lol

Here goes: I took him to a farrier in September after I got him. I had used that farrier for over a year with all my other horses. He shod DJ for the first 3 times. It was a couple days before my appointment and I needed him done sooner, so I tried to get him to take him in sooner. He couldn't. The guy up the road from him could, so I took him there for his 4th shoeing a week ago. In the mean time, I had won a gift certificate from a highly respected, VERY EXPENSIVE farrier. I had him out to do one of my horses ('cause that's all the $100 certificate would cover) and asked him to check the work the Amish guy did. He said the only thing he would change would be that DJ needed a bigger set of shoes, and shorter heel. I took my third horse back to the Amish guy since the gift certificate only covered one horse, and while I was there, I asked him to redo DJ and asked him to shoe Skunk the way the high dollar farrier suggested and showed him the job he had done on Scooby and said I wanted them all like that. So that is why he got the 5th shoeing only one week after the 4th. I am going to let this other Amish guy start shoeing my horses now, but the point is, DJ acted the same for both.

Could it be the farriers? Sure! I just doubt it is though. They are both extremely patient and gentle, but firm, with him.

And it's in an enclosed large garage type area. Honestly, there is NOWHERE around here where the flies don't hang out!! :(
    06-22-2014, 05:44 PM
I just got a video, hoping that would help y'all to make an informed suggestion. I'm working on getting it loaded. Thanks to all who are willing to help, it truly means a LOT!
    06-22-2014, 06:10 PM
Here it is, and I'm ready!
    06-22-2014, 06:21 PM
The only mistake I see you making is with the right hind. The first time he pulled it away and you allowed him to do it and put it down. The second time you were more insistent, but then he relaxed but you failed to immediately put it down to reward him for doing the right thing. Mixed messages. Otherwise I see a very obedient horse.
    06-22-2014, 06:38 PM
It also helps if someone takes him out for a vigorous ride. A pooped horse is much more willing to cooperate just so it can rest. What I do with snatchers is put the lunge line on and keep the whip handy. Move to an area where you can safely lunge him. Pick up his foot and the moment he starts to snatch it away, chase him out to the end of the line and have him do 3 circles at a brisk trot, not canter which invites a rebellious attitude. Park him where you were and start again. It may take 3 sessions for him to figure it out. The dumb ones need four but by the third most have figured out how it works and opt to cooperate.
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    06-22-2014, 06:41 PM
Super Moderator
If the flies are troublesome then you need to do something to keep the flies away.

Secondly your horse was not concentrating on what you were doing to start. He was busy rubbing his face, he must concentrate on what you are doing.

Thirdly, you are not holding his feet high enough nor resting them on your leg as a farrier would. He does not look sore or stiff in any way.

To me it is a lack of respect.

I have had many farriers over the years. I will not tolerate any horse being roughly treated and the farriers I have used know this. I can have the horses tied and the farriers get on with the job whilst I do something else (like making them tea and sandwiches!) if I hear the farrier cuss and give the horse a very hard whack with the rasp then I know the horse has earned that whack.

Balance is often the issue and a good farrier will give a horse rest time.

I had a mare that was a devil to shoe, she learned and was good. Then my farrier had an accident and another took his place. In two shoeings this mare reverted to very bad behaviour. I told the farrier to whack her one but he wouldn't.
When my regular farrier was back the mare started to snatch her foot away. She earned a hard whack on her belly and immediately she squared herself up and behaved as she should.

A lot depends on the farrier knowing his job and when to allow a rest and when to hang on. They should know when a horse is trying it on and when it is having problems.
One of my brood mares had an arthritic knee, lift that high and she would fight to get it away, if they held it low she never moved.

That os what makes a good farrier as well as their ability to balance a foot.
lovebearsall likes this.
    06-22-2014, 07:09 PM
Thank you for the responses.

I see what you're saying about mixed signals. I did put it down to find the fly. I could hear it, but couldn't see it. I can see how that may have confused him. I'm confused about the putting it down immediately part though. Aren't we past that stage? I thought the idea was to get him to hold it longer and let me tap it.

I like the thought of moving his feet if he snatches, however that is not a luxury I will have when we get to the farrier's place. He did not do that here, and I do plan to pick his feet without him being tied in the future, which will give me the ability to do lunge him during my training sessions as suggested. Thanks! As far as wearing him out beforehand, I can't really do that due to his weight issues. I am not riding him hard at all, and barely even riding him easy.

Holding it higher for the farrier-I was trying not to do that. Do you think I should be at that stage already? I'm confused as this contradicts the other post about letting it go immediately after he relaxes. If you can tell me how to eliminate the flies, I'd be more than glad to do it!!
    06-22-2014, 07:16 PM
Super Moderator
I'm afraid you'll have to be patient with those of us that ask more and more questions to try to get the bigger picture!!!
I doubt its the farrier if he was the same with the other one
I agree with Foxhunter on the face rubbing - I know this was just you messing with him but if that had been a farrier trying to get a nail in a precise spot with all that swaying about you could have ended up with a lame horse so if you want to set a level for him then maybe find a place to tie him where he wont be tempted to scratch himself - or maybe try a fly mask on him when he's having anything done
I know how tough it is trying to deal with flies - and as someone who moved from the UK to the US I can vouch for the fact that the bugs here are way worse and way more of them. It never ceases to amaze me!!
I think you handled his feet pretty well - its a shame you couldn't hang on to that hind to start with but you didn't really have his full attention but I think you did the right thing by not putting it down when he stopped fighting he needed to do as he was asked, you insisted and he gave in. That is one time I wouldn't have rewarded by allowing him to put the foot down - saying 'good boy' was reward enough so I think you did the right thing there.

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