Got kicked twice last night, trying to load my horse. - Page 7
 
 

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Got kicked twice last night, trying to load my horse.

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        09-01-2012, 05:31 PM
      #61
    Weanling
    When cattle are run through auctions, the very same thing is done with them. I only have ever seen cattle get food/water at an auction IF the buyer can't pick them up that day. These horses arent going straight on a journey across the border, they are first taken to be fattened in feedlots like cattle. If you watch how these kill buyers operate, they don't buy sick or really lame horses, because they need these horses to transport decently (plus they geld any stallions)< sick/ severly injured horses will be turned away at the border. Also if these Kb are crossing state lines, they have to have all of the appropriate travel papers on these horses like anybody else hauling livestock out of state. My info comes from research I have done on the subject ( I used to be anti slaughter untill I actually educated myself) and also from observing/ talking to kill buyers in action (its amazing the info you can get out of them when talking to them like humans). Now like I said, the industry can definetly use some improving in handling practices and how these horses are hauled and slaughtered(and yes there are careless people who do it), but these people get paid by the pound when the horses are unloaded at the packers (just like with cattle)..and it is NOT profitable for them to allow such shrinkage especially when the horses are being hauled so far.
    kccjer likes this.
         
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        09-01-2012, 05:34 PM
      #62
    Weanling
    It is legal in the US! Its just that Usda funding for it has been slashed, and you cannot operate a plant with out it being usda inspected. And maybe it has changed again, but last I heard we no longer ship to mexico.
         
        09-01-2012, 08:17 PM
      #63
    Weanling
    I hate that you got kicked, and I'm glad that it was only your pride and heart that got hurt. If you decide to keep him, you might want to consider finding a different farrier for him. One that will come to him. I understand your frustration, but am confident that you will make the right decision for both of you.

    Good luck and God bless.
    Posted via Mobile Device
    Mochachino likes this.
         
        09-01-2012, 11:58 PM
      #64
    Started
    Cattle's hide is thicker than a horses... ever been to a branding? Ever seen how long a hot iron has to stay on a horse to brand vs a cow? I have a kid who is actually friend's with a kill buyer. I know they can answer all the questions and I bet they talk differently to you than they do to me.

    Not going to convince me that horses are being treated as they should be in transportation or as they should be in feedlots. Plants need to return to operation in the US to save our horses from horrendous miles of travel.
         
        09-02-2012, 01:41 AM
      #65
    Started
    I didn't have time to read all the responses but the first thing that leapt out of that post to me is '14 year old horse too arthritic to ride'. HOW, how is a 14 year old horse too broken to ride?!! Unless he had some horrible accident I can't see how a horse at only 14 could have been used up quite so thoroughly.

    I am also one to say that a horse is not something to be 'disposed of' when they are no longer valuable. There are extreme cases in which you can no longer care for your loved friend and the best thing is to euthanize or rehome them. But a 14 year old horse who hasn't been in an accident should NOT be crippled. And his owners owe it to him to provide him a solid end of life - whether it be euthanasia or just a retirement field. There are farms where you pay a tiny fee to let your horse live out their life unbothered. I horse who has devoted his life to you and gotten crippled in doing so is not something to be disposed of when he proves not imperfect. Get a bigger trailer if that's the only issue.

    I run a rescue with 17 old, crippled, broken horses. And despite their level of brokeness all are expected to be respectful at all times. They are disciplined just the same as if they were sound, that additional ouch they feel when being backed up or moved out your space just makes them quicker realize they stepped out of bounds. You shouldn't need to lunge him repeatedly to get him on a trailer. Either get a trailer he's comfortable with or just get him comfortable with this one when you have time and no pride to hold on to.

    Considering you'll never ride him again and he won't need to do anything but be respectful have you considered clicker training him? Teach him to touch a target to get a treat, put the target in a trailer. Works EVERY time! I realize a number of people dislike clicker training for a number of reasons but this horse has nothing to loose by trying it.
    WickedNag and Ponies like this.
         
        09-02-2012, 01:56 AM
      #66
    Started
    OK I read through posts, turned into a horse slaughter debate? XD

    Well here's what I know. Yes it's legal again in the US - but there is only 1 place just about to open in Illinois I think. When horse slaughter was made illegal in the US it was made ONLY illegal for HUMAN CONSUMPTION!!! Not dog food!!! So horses Continued to be slaughtered here in the US for dog food! There is a slaughter plant for dog food in opporation not 3 hours from me, in New Jersey, they have been sighted for a large number of animal abuse claims including some horrible things by the owner (look them up - dog food company in NJ).

    The difference is huge between human consumption and pet food.
    Human consumption: horses need to be an appropriate weight, need to be sounds, need to not have had a list of specific medicine (meaning most pet horses could not ever be sold for human consumption as most have been medicated recently before the sale - even OTTBs!!), they need to be Healthy!! They can not give the horses any antibiotics so they will not take an injured animals!! They would never be a grey horse (they have melanomas). They will be an average size horse (ponies have too small a steak) and draft horses are rarely used, only in Japan do they want that type of meat. The horses are regulated and cared for by officials and veterinarians - much like cattle, but specialized.

    Dog food: The horse can be in any state of health, could have had any medicine recently, they can even be DEAD! You can sell your euthanized Horse to a dog food plant!! Can you imagine feeding your dog that?!

    So when they outlawed horse slaughter in the US they only outlawed Human Consumption. Which they didn't actually outlaw- they just made it so there would be no FDA regulators to ensure safe practices, which made it so slaughter houses couldn't kill horses, because without the FDA stamp they can't sell to humans. SO if a horse were to make it past dog food in the US they were shipped to either Canada or Mexico (God willing they all went to Canada where they were killed quick and humanely)

    The only good solution to slaughter houses is to STOP over breeding!!! There are far more horses in this country than we can handle. 14 year old horses are being crippled and disposed of. This isn't ok!

    My suggestion on how to fix it. Micro-chips. Canada and many other countries micro-chip all their horses. When the horse arrives at a slaughter plant they scan them all, if they have a chip they call previous owners of the horse - if anyone wants the horse back they can pay a fee and come pick it up. This makes the slaughter company more money and gives a horse a second chance. If no one wants the horse back they would be slaughtered, but at least they had a chance. Think back to that first horse you ever loved that had to be given away/sold or was never yours and you lost track of him/her over the years. Wouldn't you give anything to get them back? If they had a micro chip and you got that phone call for that 1 special horse - wouldn't you save him/her? I would.
         
        09-02-2012, 01:57 AM
      #67
    Trained
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by PunksTank    
    I didn't have time to read all the responses but the first thing that leapt out of that post to me is '14 year old horse too arthritic to ride'. HOW, how is a 14 year old horse too broken to ride?!! Unless he had some horrible accident I can't see how a horse at only 14 could have been used up quite so thoroughly.

    Clearly the term "all horses are differant" didn't quite get to you. My six year old gets more sore than my 19 year old with the same amount of riding. Same with humans. Some people get prematurely arthritic and sore. Especially a barrel horse like Beau was. He worked hard. Some horses can handle it well into their twenties, others just can't.

    I am also one to say that a horse is not something to be 'disposed of' when they are no longer valuable. There are extreme cases in which you can no longer care for your loved friend and the best thing is to euthanize or rehome them. But a 14 year old horse who hasn't been in an accident should NOT be crippled. And his owners owe it to him to provide him a solid end of life - whether it be euthanasia or just a retirement field. There are farms where you pay a tiny fee to let your horse live out their life unbothered. I horse who has devoted his life to you and gotten crippled in doing so is not something to be disposed of when he proves not imperfect. Get a bigger trailer if that's the only issue.

    Can NOT be crippled? Can NOT? As in completely and totally impossible? Implying she does not know when her own horse is arthritic? You liked my post earlier. I'm assuming that means you agree with the point. Beau posted this in the heat of the moment. She was mad. She isn't saying she's sending her horse to slaughter right then and there.

    And "get a bigger trailer"? That's pretty low in this economy. It's a miracle she can afford to keep the horses at all with the way money is right now. I don't think it's your place to tell her what she needs to do. If I recall, this trailer was borrowed anyway.

    I run a rescue with 17 old, crippled, broken horses. And despite their level of brokeness all are expected to be respectful at all times. They are disciplined just the same as if they were sound, that additional ouch they feel when being backed up or moved out your space just makes them quicker realize they stepped out of bounds. You shouldn't need to lunge him repeatedly to get him on a trailer. Either get a trailer he's comfortable with or just get him comfortable with this one when you have time and no pride to hold on to.

    If the horse has trailering problems, lunging is perfectly valid. Some horses are just claustrophobic. My 13.3hh mare right now is claustrophobic. She hates slant loads like that too. I lunge her back and forth away from the trailer for a minute and then let her stand, rest, and be calm there. Eventually she stopped. Now she goes in anything. Not every horse is born with perfect trailering skills...

    Considering you'll never ride him again and he won't need to do anything but be respectful have you considered clicker training him? Teach him to touch a target to get a treat, put the target in a trailer. Works EVERY time! I realize a number of people dislike clicker training for a number of reasons but this horse has nothing to loose by trying it.
    I'm sorry, this post just really rubbed me wrong for whatever reason. I hope you don't take anything I said personally in the bold there.
         
        09-02-2012, 01:58 AM
      #68
    Trained
    Wow I can't believe we're actually starting ANOTHER slaughter debate on a thread about someone being kicked. Come on guys. The OP never said anything about sending Beau to slaughter.
         
        09-02-2012, 02:00 AM
      #69
    Started
    I agree, it's notmy place to tell her not to sell/euthanise the horse or to buy a bigger trailer. But if she wants to load the horse without lunging him, a bigger trailer or clicker training might help. Maybe I worded things a little too harshly. At that point I hadn't seen any of her follow ups - only her first angry post.

    As for being crippled - typically a horse doesn't become so arthritic that they can never be ridden again over night. Most people when they notice a horse becoming stiff or sore when they're only 14 years old would consider taking things quite a bit lighter, not working them so much so that they don't become crippled, or at least last a little longer. The way I see it if you see a horse starting to go down hill, a 6 year old needing injections for example, the work is too much for them. Ease it up a bit, get a horse who can handle the work and sell the one who can't to someone who could use a light riding partner - while the horse is still sound enough to do so. Once they're completely crippled there's not many people who Will take them.
         
        09-02-2012, 09:29 AM
      #70
    Super Moderator
    I can't believe we are trying to justify a horse kicking someone. We are blaming his pain -- never an excuse. We are blaming the size of the trailer -- never an excuse. We are blaming the loading method -- never an excuse.

    We all need to sit back and look at the problem(s).

    1) Horse had never loaded well. This needed to be fixed years ago.

    2) Horse is disrespectful or he would not have kicked -- pain or not.

    3) Everyone seems to have a lot of problems with the difference between a reason and using it for an excuse.
         

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