Got kicked twice last night, trying to load my horse. - Page 8 - The Horse Forum
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post #71 of 83 Old 09-02-2012, 11:14 AM
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Yikes, I would find a farrier that made barn calls!! I have never heard of a farrier that made you come to him (or her)!!
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post #72 of 83 Old 09-02-2012, 12:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Cherie View Post
I can't believe we are trying to justify a horse kicking someone. We are blaming his pain -- never an excuse. We are blaming the size of the trailer -- never an excuse. We are blaming the loading method -- never an excuse.

We all need to sit back and look at the problem(s).

1) Horse had never loaded well. This needed to be fixed years ago.

2) Horse is disrespectful or he would not have kicked -- pain or not.

3) Everyone seems to have a lot of problems with the difference between a reason and using it for an excuse.

Don't get me wrong. This absolutely is an unforgiveable act of disrespect that needed to have been taken care of immediately. The first time it showed. But if she won't lunge the horse to get him in the trailer and can't think of any other ways to make this horse get in this trailer, won't use some sort of positive reinforcement skill (like targetting)- then I'm seeing very few options as for how to get a horse on a trailer, besides getting a bigger one.

Like I said in my follow up - I have a number of very broken rescues and no matter what sort of pain they're in disrespect is never allowed and is always dealt with. Especially something as potentially devastating as a kick!
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post #73 of 83 Old 09-02-2012, 12:37 PM
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Ok, I'm NOT going to read all the replies here but for crying out loud people! She isn't selling the horse ONLY because she got kicked! She states toward the bottom of her post that she had planned on selling him in the spring anyway. She doesn't say she IS taking him to the sale, but that she wouldn't have a problem with it AT THIS POINT. (I knew a girl that would get her 4H market animal mad enough to kick her so she wouldn't cry when she sold it....)

As for "owing it to the animal to keep it forever or put it down" any of you have money issues? Seriously? If she can get 3 or 400 out of this horse at a sale, she can afford to put feed, or training or whatever into another horse! I don't know about your area, but it costs over $100 to euthanize a horse in my area. AND THEN....what do you do with the body if you don't own a place where you can bury it???? It's ANOTHER huge expense to call the "used cow dealer" out. So let's spend another $300 or so on an ANIMAL that can't be used anymore? Really?

Economics has always and will always play a role in our world. There are times when it simply isn't realistic to keep a horse or to put it down or whatever. I'm a little worked up over this right now as we are dealing with this with a friend. She has a horse given to her by a rescue that is breaking down faster than originally thot....he's got extreme down pasterns (should have been put down as a colt to be honest). She would like to sell him in order to put the money into another horse she has for training for her daughter. This horse is IN PAIN. But we're being told....NEVER give up on a horse. Ok, so let's spend more money putting this poor animal thru more pain. Let's spend more money using pain killers on him. about we let him go and use the money to make a sound horse a better horse for our little girl???

Seriously, there is absolutely NOTHING wrong with selling this animal and using the money to improve a SOUND horse. AND, I totally "get" the sentimental issues involved. I forced my dad to bury a horse in the middle of winter because I didn't want her "made into glue". My daughters gelding has arthritis and is aging. He ISN'T going to last forever. Right now (notice I said "now") we have the ability to put him out to pasture when he can't be ridden anymore. BUT...if he's in pain? He'll be put down OR sold to a packer. That's part of life and part of owning an expensive "livestock" type animal.
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post #74 of 83 Old 09-02-2012, 09:58 PM
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NO WN, i have never been to a branding, and I have no question as to horses having thinner hides than cattle. But when loading a 10, 20, 30 horses of questionable training and temperment onto a trailer, how do you purpose they do it? I dont like the thought of horses being prodded, but I know that sorting sticks can have little affect on a balky horse who is loading into a huge trailer with a bunch of unfamiliar horses, and dont even get me started on those rattle paddles- anyone who has used a rattle paddle can tell you those can cause mass histeria to a group of horses in the best of situations. ( I have used those things on and off horseback when we had cattle and they are sooo much harder to desensitize to than tarps or other various blowy noisy things!). Its better to prod one or two horses to get the herd moving than it is to scare the living ****e out of everybody.

Do I like it? NO, but I cant blame the these people for the way its done. Nor do I expect them to do it in a way that some one could get hurt (ie. trying to nicly lead every horse into the trailer).

And I just have to say, that if you think this doesnt happen just because the horses are slaughtered here in the states, you would be dillusional.
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post #75 of 83 Old 09-03-2012, 07:57 AM
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Not disillusion. If you read my posts you will see I am pro slaughter... IN the US not shipping them thousands of miles. I by far think that the transportation is the hardest thing about slaughter.
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post #76 of 83 Old 09-03-2012, 10:38 AM
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ok your kind of fooling me.

ok so before the plants shut down in texas (the one in illinois had afire and had been closed for a while before this if im correct)..That would mean horses sold at the new holland (PA. i believe) sale were still hauled well over 2,000 miles to dallas. Horses picked up in nevada had roughly a 1,500 mile trip, while horses from up in the northwest area (enumclaw action comes to mind) are in the same boat as the the new holland horses. My point is that these horses STILL had to travel before being exported. The only difference is its a different set of horses traveling. AND an FYI the same amount of horses are still being slaughtered as before, just NOW because of the exportation, we arent seeing the prices per pound we did before.
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post #77 of 83 Old 09-03-2012, 04:16 PM
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ALL slaughter plants closed down in 2007 because the USDA would not inspect the meat so it could not be shipped across state lines or to a foreign country.

After that, a new plant was built in Mexico by the same owners of the old Illinois plant.

There are also plants in Canada.

Slaughter is legal (and always has been) except for state laws in a few states including Texas and Illinois. The way has partially been cleared for inspection again, but so for, it has not been funded in the Federal budget.

There are American investors that want to open plants in Missouri, Oklahoma, on Indian land and several other states. I do not think anything will happen before the elections in November because no budget is going to be passed that deals with 'little' things.

The best thing that can happen for horses' lives in general would be many small plants in many states so the glut of horses can go somewhere, values will go up because the 1500 to 2500 mile haul will not be deducted from their value, people will take a lot better care of horses that are worth more and the pressure will not be on all of the rescues and law enforcement agencies.

The young, healthy horses will be the big winners. With the increased values, people will be more anxious to invest time, money and feed in 'project' horses.

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post #78 of 83 Old 09-03-2012, 05:39 PM
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Each state should have its own slaughter yard where owners can take their horses by appointment and be sure they are dealt with humanely - or pay someone to take them who will do the same thing
Its a fact of life - horses get sick, old, people can't afford to keep them, sometimes they are just so difficult it isn't worth the time and cost to fix them - loads of reasons and sometimes finance does come into it so euthanasia at home isn't always an option
Its a hole that needs filling and fast.
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post #79 of 83 Old 09-03-2012, 06:12 PM
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I'm just going to say that I would hate to meet your family.
I've read the whole thread.
And I'm appalled.

My horses are more than just 'animals' to me. I do know that that's what they are - but the relationship between my horses and the relationship between my gerbil is a black and white difference. Those horses have given up a lot for me. They have done a lot for me. I owe them that back. We aren't rich. Not by any means. But it becomes less about that when it comes to paying your dues to the horses that love you. Oats? He's 22. He's got arthritis in his hocks as bad as anything. He's unrideable. Do we send him to slaughter? Absa-freaking-loutly not. He's been a good boy. It's our turn to be good owners.
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post #80 of 83 Old 09-03-2012, 10:46 PM
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I have taken the time tonight to read through the whole thread and I have to say how disappointed and taken aback I am at the community. OP came here looking for a sympathetic haven when she was hurt and angry and instead she has found herself backed into a corner and forced to defend not only her heated words but the conjecture of others.

I was not raised on a farm and in a perfect world I would like to think it possible for people to be able to keep a horse till the natural end of it's days. However this world is not perfect and even though I did not grow up with a farm mentality, I firmly believe that my animals have to earn their keep. Maybe some of you are able to shell out money for an animal that is a lawn ornament but still requires load of expensive upkeep, not everyone can.

That fact is immaterial in this conversation though. The bottom line is that it is very rude and intolerant to subject someone who is obviously already struggling emotionally with a heavy decision to the kind of attacks to her upbringing and personal beliefs that has been done in this thread. If you have a genuine concern, aside from your morals being offended, offer your questions or comments. Otherwise, perhaps you should keep your judgments to yourself.
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