Great to ride, rude on the ground... - Page 3

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Great to ride, rude on the ground...

This is a discussion on Great to ride, rude on the ground... within the Horse Training forums, part of the Training Horses category

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    11-06-2010, 02:50 PM
I agree, he doesn't have respect. But in a more general attitude to horses, if one doesn't know WHY the horse is kicking and biting (defense mechanism) being gruff and rough about it right off the hop is not a safe or a productive idea. (If the horse is behaving that way out of fear, which it doesn't sound like THIS one is but punishing it is the opposite of a good idea). I agree though, outside help sounds like a great solution!
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    11-06-2010, 02:59 PM
Personally for me, I wouldn't care if it was my horse or a horse I have in for training, if it corners me and wants to kick, it's going to get a come to Jesus meeting, and learn some manners. That does not mean I'm going to be abusive to the horse. It simply means he's going to learn who the boss is and where his place in the line up is. To me this is a horse who wants to be boss, and that is out of the question. Tip toeing around the problem trying to figure out why, is not going to fix it. The behavior is going to get much worse.
    11-06-2010, 05:49 PM
Just a little note. You can teach a horse who is boss with out being angry or aggressive, teaching a horse that you are the leader has nothing to do with being abusive unless you are an abusive person. There is not a black and white line where you're either in the white and softly softly or in the black and an evil horse abuser. Being soft with a horse does not mean that you are a hopeless, ineffectual pansy, unless you are infact a hopeless, ineffectual pansy.

Come on guys, we agree that the horse needs some help with learning his new place in the world of humans. We don't know the horse and can't really comment on how firm a hand is going to need to be taken with this TB. Personally I think the horse needs calm consistency and as a fairly new horse person the OP will need some help. BUT that does not prohibit her from setting out to gain knowledge with the help of some great trainers using whatever media she can get her hands on.
    11-06-2010, 07:53 PM
Originally Posted by kiwigirl    
Being soft with a horse does not mean that you are a hopeless, ineffectual pansy, unless you are infact a hopeless, ineffectual pansy.
VERY well said!! I'll probably use that sometime.
    11-06-2010, 08:06 PM
    11-07-2010, 01:21 PM
Kiwi please explain what you mean by being soft with a horse. Using the concept of being soft with a horse, how would you fix the problem of this horse cornering you and kicking, and sometimes being successful. I'm really trying hard to understand where you are coming from with this.
    11-07-2010, 09:59 PM
All that I mean by softly is someone who has the patience to start right at the beginning with a horse that is likely bewildered and frustrated by a new environment that it doesn't understand. If I wanted to start softly with a horse that tried to corner me and kick the first thing I would do is ensure that the horse was not in a position to be able to corner me. I would eliminate the 'feeling trapped' aspect of the situation by putting the horse in an enclosure/ small paddock or large yard that was large enough to allow the horse to feel less pressure but small enough to still allow me to apply pressure if I wished. From there I would start working with the horse daily using advance and retreat methods (pressure, release). I wouldn't even try and ride the horse until I had the horse catching, leading, tying, full body grooming, with not one bit of hesitation from the horse.

What I wouldn't do is just try to deal with the biting and kicking because I think they are a symptom of a larger problem, and I especially would not try to deal with the biting and kicking by "biting" and "kicking" back. Now don't get me wrong, later down the track once I was confident the horse has a good understanding of where it is supposed to be but doesn't think that it wants to be there, then I would up the ante and push a few more buttons but at the outset not so much. Does this make sense? All this is just my opinion and just the way I would go about things, no one need agree.
    11-07-2010, 10:28 PM
Originally Posted by kiwigirl    
Sorry guys but I don't care how "hot" a horse gets on food or how antsy it gets from lack of space there is NO EXCUSE for biting and kicking! It is down right disrespectful and needs to be dealt with on the proper level. I can understand a horse getting jiggy joggy on hot food but NOT biting and kicking.
Ditto to this...respect is respect, and disrespect disrespect...plain and simple. Would I try changing back to his previous diet? Sure, because he may just not need the extra protien and 'energy' that a strictly alfalfa diet gives, especially if all he has is a stall with a run, and little turn out. But that said, I NEVER allow feed to be an excuse for a horse to be blatantly disrespectful...this horse is telling her off, period, and that needs to be addressed.

There have been alot of good suggestions as far as how to gain his respect, OP, so I hope you can figure things out, before either of you gets really badly hurt. I would also try to find a trainer who would be willing to come out and work along side you. I also agree that the horse was probably NOT as sweet as he came across when you got him...he was run down, and tired...I have rehabbed horses, and it can take sometimes months after they really gain weight and condition for their 'true colors' to come out.
    11-07-2010, 10:33 PM
Yes, Kiwi that makes a lot more sense to me. Whew I'm so glad you cleared that up.

When I read soft with a horse the first thing that comes to mind for me is, oh Black Beauty, I Love You, I would never hurt you. As they slowly creep up on the horse. I'm really nice, I'll give you a treat. And then the horse takes a steak out of their arm when they reach out to give the horse a treat. It's like trying to bribe a child into behaving, by using candy. And that just makes me wanna hurl.
    11-07-2010, 10:37 PM
Originally Posted by Crickett    
Kiwi please explain what you mean by being soft with a horse. Using the concept of being soft with a horse, how would you fix the problem of this horse cornering you and kicking, and sometimes being successful. I'm really trying hard to understand where you are coming from with this.
Soft to me means how little pressure it takes from me to encourage a horse to move in the direction I am asking. I always start out light with a cue, and increase in pressure until the horse gives me the SLIGHTEST effort; horses learn from the release of pressure, NOT the pressure itself! In the OP's case, it is the horse shifting his rear away from her, and facing her with two eyes. This is something that has to really be taught in a controlled on a 14 ft lead, with a rope halter. You teach the horse to face up by first glancing at his hip and moving toward it...if that doesn't get him to shift then you would twirl your lead rope end toward his hip, to encourage him to move it away, and if that doesn't work you would use the lead rope on his hip lightly, or in increasing pressure, to encourage him to move away. As soon as he moves, you would release all pressure. Some horses are softer than others, meaning they require as little as you glancing in their hip's direction, to start moving away. The TB in this thread is obviously NOT soft at this point...changing his diet may help calm him down, but it won't in my opinion, change his attitude at this point, that needs to come from respect building exercises.

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