grumpy horse - Page 2

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grumpy horse

This is a discussion on grumpy horse within the Horse Training forums, part of the Training Horses category

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    06-21-2008, 04:11 AM
Well said Brandon. Now its matter of people learning that way
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    06-21-2008, 10:52 AM
You guys going to hijack the topic? Relax.

The horse may or may not realize at the time why she drove her away but if you would have read my post I then said to leave her alone and play the game of "the next move is yours." This gives her a chance to think about it and when she finally wants to ask a question (ears full forward on her) then you acknowledge that. Horses are not stupid, they catch on very quickly. If you drove her away and then asked her to do something else that usually makes her ears go back you would just be leading her into a trap basically. That would really tick her off.
    06-22-2008, 01:48 AM
Spirithorse, I found Brandon's post to be very well thought out, and VERY relevant to the topic at hand... you offered some advice, and he thought that part of it was incorrect and gave a very good reason as to why, and I completely agree with him. Horses react based on learned responses to various cues. They do NOT think logically like a human. They are essentially "programmed" with various cues and learn (through repetition and what trainers call "conditioning") to "respond" by taking a course of programmed action.
This is very important to remember when training any horse, therefore is very relevant to the topic at hand.

TO the original poster:
I can't recall in the replies, but has this horse been checked over for any physical issues that may be causing her some pain? Is it bi-lateral, or just to one direction, or mostly to one direction? Trotting will bring out unsoundess more than a walk will, so perhaps something is bothering the horse, but not so much to make her (her, right?) sore at the trot. Do you use any equipment? Is she balanced at the trot?
    06-22-2008, 01:56 AM
I was thinkin this over last night, and I believe that if a horse where to give you a snotty look and you push her away let her roam or whatever then what is that teachin the horse? That if I give my owner a bad attitude then I get out of work. That's seems most logical to me, in my opinion. Horses have there moments where they are pretty clever, but they are mainly only responded to you because of pressure or what has been programmed (not tryin to say they are robots or computers) into them by you for them to do when somethin is asked.

Now I am not tryin to discredit Parelli's methods, because I am sure some of his methods work with some horses. I just don't like some of the methods he uses to train horses, I think they can teach bad habits.

    06-22-2008, 12:29 PM
Driving the horse away (not pushing his head) after he gives you a snotty look and then giving him the next move will not teach bad habits or that he can get out of work.

My new horse had a habit of pinning his ears at me when I asked him to change direction. It was completely out of dominance. When he would draw toward me I would trust that he would have a positive look on his face but when he pinned his ears I drove him away strongly to say "Wipe that look off your face!" and then left him alone. If at that time I asked him to change directions again (in which case he would pin his ears) and I would drive him away again, he would start to think "Gee, everytime I do this you drive me away and I don't know why..." How long would it take him to not want to change directions at all? Not very long. So by correcting him once and then leaving him alone out on the circle, still trotting, he can think about it. "Hmm, that was different!" I interrupted his pattern and now he has to sort through what happened. When he asks me a question (2 eyes, 2 ears on me) or makes some kind of change I will acknowledge it and allow him to come to me. Then I will send him back out and change directions again. That dwell time is so important. Since I've been consistant with this my horse no longer pins his ears on the draw. He has a soft look on his face and changes direction smoothly and willingly.
    06-22-2008, 12:38 PM
Ya know guys, There is an old saying that goes " there is more than one way to skin a cat" I think we should all just post what we feel is the best way to handle the situation the OP was asking about and leave it at that. Parelli has its pros and cons as well as every other training method on the planet. I don't think it is necessary to hack apart the advice that we are giving to each other. Of course we can disagree, respectfully. Lets let others disagree with us. This Forum is a great place where we can SHARE ideas...lets not waste our time and efforts trying to win a debate. The OP can read through the suggestions and choose what works for them.
    06-22-2008, 02:07 PM
DG, if I feel something within a certain method might be incorrect, I will reply with a response. Brandon was pointing out an excellent point in SH's post, something that he didn't agree with and didn't feel was correct. And I fullheartedly agree.
If someone posts a piece of advice that isn't fully right, then I will point it out. I am all for a bit of mature debate over methods... and I think other people are as well.
Anyways, that's that.
Sempre_cantando, best of luck with your horse.
    06-22-2008, 09:08 PM
Remember that mares will be mares. Soemtimes hormones take their course and mares just, get grumpy! Her moving into your space is her trying to raise her place in the pecking order. You should not accept this, in the wild, you are the alpha horse, and to keep your place, YOU must drive the horse away. Don't worry about her being grumpy as such, she's just annoyed that she's lost. Eventually she'll forget and she'll learn that you don't like her in your spcae. Everything will become habbit to her over time.
She's not angry at you for driving her away, she's just telling you, like they would in the wild, they're not happy, and their instincts tell them that you are wrong.
But you are right, and habbit will teach her that
    06-22-2008, 11:42 PM
Wow there's been a lot of discussion on this topic since I last checked it! Thanks everyone for your advice!
I think Jeddah explained it very well - my mare is only grumpy because she's cross that she lost.

JDI - she's equally grumpy on either rein but not if I'm riding her.

Let me know if you have any other brainwaves!
    06-22-2008, 11:44 PM
Have you checked her over for any signs of pain?

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