Is it Harsh? - Page 2
 
 

       The Horse Forum > Training Horses > Horse Training

Is it Harsh?

This is a discussion on Is it Harsh? within the Horse Training forums, part of the Training Horses category
  • Tom thumb bit with curb chain

Like Tree85Likes

 
LinkBack Thread Tools
    03-09-2013, 03:40 AM
  #11
Foal
I can always tell when someone is riding their horse in a tom thumb bit. It's usually the horse with his head straight in the air and with his mouth open and jerking his head to any kind of pressure from the reins.

I'm a believer in the saying that bits are only as harsh as the hands that use them, but you can tell when someone designed a bit made for people who don't know how to have soft hands. Take for instance, the bicycle chain bit:



The Stop n Turn bit:


I don't even know what this bit is called:


For those of you who hate TTB, how do you like THEM shanks???
     
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
    03-09-2013, 03:58 AM
  #12
Started
I have the bit in the first picture.
Posted via Mobile Device
     
    03-09-2013, 04:06 AM
  #13
Trained
They are really a poorly designed bit and even though some horses do okay with them, they will do much better with different bit. TT's just don't have the design to encourage a horse to seek it's contact.
Posted via Mobile Device
     
    03-09-2013, 04:12 AM
  #14
Weanling
I am a very firm believer that a bit is only as strong as the hands that touch it. Personally, I have never used a tom thumb, nor know anyone off the top of my head that uses one. I use a kimberwick on my pony, and I can think of a few times I've gotten certain looks for using it. I feel like that's because some (a lot) of people are uneducated on bits - they hear a certain type of bit and automatically assume it's HARSH or assume a person is using said bit has heavy hands or what have you. I don't have a problem with a person using a stronger bit if that is legitimately what is needed and the rider is educated on the purpose and use of that bit, and uses it correctly. That being said, there are a number of bits I can think of that you couldn't pay me to stick in any horse's mouth.
     
    03-09-2013, 11:16 AM
  #15
Weanling
Ok so I know someone that used this bit, "because their horse wouldn't stop" I never got them to understand that they needed to retrain the horse. I never understood this bit.



The Stop n Turn bit:


"I don't even know what this bit is called: "wow !!!


"For those of you who hate TTB, how do you like THEM shanks???"
So when I was young and teaching my self to ride (this is why its important to get help when you are starting out) I was having trouble getting my horse to stop, I went to a "tack shop" and stood and looked at the bit all until a guy that worked there came up to "help" I told him my problem with my horse and he sold me this bit I took it home put it on my horse and STILL had trouble getting him to stop. Long story short. I went away for the summer to work at a summer camp working with horses. Came home at the end of the summer and this and my old bridle was hanging on the wall. Both were missing the curb strap . Went out bought two curb straps and surprise surprise my horse didn't have a stopping problem. The moral be careful how you take tack advice from. And when you are a beginner get help.
[/QUOTE]
     
    03-09-2013, 11:33 AM
  #16
Started
OP - what are your goals with your horse.
I think it's been stated well enough that Tom Thumbs are poorly designed bits - and even if they're not always harsh in gentle hands, there are more kind and effective options out there.

If you're looking for just a basic western bit, you want something with a solid mouth piece, not jointed, either ported or mullened. Shorter shanks in relation to the purchase make the bit milder, and vice versa - longer shanks to a shorter purchase make them harsher. You'll want to look into your particular sport and try some on your horse to see what you both work well in.

If you are direct reining (as so many falsely think they can do in a TT) You'll want to look into some snaffle options (bits with rings, not shanks). My preference is double jointed bits like French links or lozenge styles like KK ultra.
I think how you and your horse rides and what your ultimate goals are will help find you an appropriate bit. TT's just aren't ideal in any situation (IMO).
MAG1723 and CowboyBob like this.
     
    03-09-2013, 11:51 AM
  #17
Started
So many factors with this. While I can't think of ANY circumstance I would use a Tom Thumb, I am a firm believer that the rider plays a big role in how harsh the bit is to the horse. So rider, horse attitude and mouth anatomy play huge roles.

My percheron's D-ring single jointed snaffle seemed like a milder bit to people. However, for her, it was quite harsh since she has an extremely wide tongue, fleshy lips and very low palate. I ride very light in my hands, so I got away with it, but you could see she wasn't happy.

I have a kimberwick with a double-jointed losenge and a low port solid mouthpiece curb. She has responded very nicely to both of them and is much more relaxed, even though they would be considered harsher bits I guess. The points of pressure are different then with the snaffle and works for her. Each horse is individual and have different tolerances too. Then combine that with maybe the person does not have the correct size bit for the horse or have it positioned correctly with the horses head....that can be disasterous too.
nvr2many likes this.
     
    03-09-2013, 12:11 PM
  #18
Weanling
I agree, harshness is mostly in the hands of the rider.

However, the snaffle, that is one of the most common starter bits is also one of the most severe. At one time we used a snaffle to start all of our horses, then I found some of them did poorly in the snaffle. After quite a bit of research, I found the cause of the problem. The floor of the mouth of quite a few horses is too shallow to allow the tongue to get under the bit, without a lot of pressure on the tongue. We started using the toklat #89-20015 HBT 5" shank w/the SI 01 CI mouth. You can attach the reins to the bit at the connection to the mouth piece, so there is no lever action at all. Then when your ready for lever action move the reins to the shanks. The bit has a raised mouth piece that provides clearance for the tongue.

Many, many hard mouthed horses are made this way because the horse is simply protecting his tongue.

The bicycle chain bit, if properly fit, and has the smooth side down, is actually a milder bit than the simple, one joint snaffle. The chain has multiple joints, giving more rise to make room for the tongue.
     
    03-09-2013, 12:22 PM
  #19
Started
Quote:
Originally Posted by bbsmfg3    
I agree, harshness is mostly in the hands of the rider.

However, the snaffle, that is one of the most common starter bits is also one of the most severe. At one time we used a snaffle to start all of our horses, then I found some of them did poorly in the snaffle. After quite a bit of research, I found the cause of the problem. The floor of the mouth of quite a few horses is too shallow to allow the tongue to get under the bit, without a lot of pressure on the tongue. We started using the toklat #89-20015 HBT 5" shank w/the SI 01 CI mouth. You can attach the reins to the bit at the connection to the mouth piece, so there is no lever action at all. Then when your ready for lever action move the reins to the shanks. The bit has a raised mouth piece that provides clearance for the tongue.

Many, many hard mouthed horses are made this way because the horse is simply protecting his tongue.

The bicycle chain bit, if properly fit, and has the smooth side down, is actually a milder bit than the simple, one joint snaffle. The chain has multiple joints, giving more rise to make room for the tongue.
I like that bit too and have one, just not in a 7" for my percheron. I'd have to have it made by Myler for her, which I may just do.
     
    03-09-2013, 12:43 PM
  #20
Trained
I have yet to see a TT hanging in a trainers tackroom, that ought to tell you something....
smrobs, Cherie, GotaDunQH and 6 others like this.
     

Quick Reply
Please help keep the Horse Forum enjoyable by reporting rude posts.
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the The Horse Forum forums, you must first register.

Already have a Horse Forum account?
Members are allowed only one account per person at the Horse Forum, so if you've made an account here in the past you'll need to continue using that account. Please do not create a new account or you may lose access to the Horse Forum. If you need help recovering your existing account, please Contact Us. We'll be glad to help!

New to the Horse Forum?
Please choose a username you will be satisfied with using for the duration of your membership at the Horse Forum. We do not change members' usernames upon request because that would make it difficult for everyone to keep track of who is who on the forum. For that reason, please do not incorporate your horse's name into your username so that you are not stuck with a username related to a horse you may no longer have some day, or use any other username you may no longer identify with or care for in the future.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.


Old Thread Warning
This thread is more than 90 days old. When a thread is this old, it is often better to start a new thread rather than post to it. However, If you feel you have something of value to add to this particular thread, you can do so by checking the box below before submitting your post.

Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Am I too harsh? sweetxsour35 Horse Talk 6 02-25-2012 06:12 AM
How harsh is this bit? misskingraven Horse Tack and Equipment 5 08-29-2011 02:43 AM
Be harsh if you please.... Cowgirl140ty Horse Riding Critique 7 10-07-2010 07:13 PM
is this bit harsh?? savvylover112 Horse Tack and Equipment 13 07-20-2009 09:50 AM
She's way too harsh! SpiritJordanRivers Horse Training 68 06-07-2009 02:34 AM



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:32 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0