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Help with Biting and kicking

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  • How can I defend myself against rearing horses?

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    10-25-2011, 12:14 PM
  #11
Trained
If a horse was really biting someone when they went in the stall it wouldn't take more than once to keep them out of the stall. Horses don't protect people from other horses unless they are created by Walter Farley.

I know horses can be that vicious. That part MAY be true but the rest is fiction.
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    10-25-2011, 12:22 PM
  #12
Yearling
Quote:
Originally Posted by kevinshorses    
If a horse was really biting someone when they went in the stall it wouldn't take more than once to keep them out of the stall. Horses don't protect people from other horses unless they are created by Walter Farley.

I know horses can be that vicious. That part MAY be true but the rest is fiction.
Sometimes people mistake certain behavior and turn it into something else. They twist the horse's words. I bet the horse that's 'protecting' her is just being an attention / treat hog and won't let the other horse get near.
     
    10-25-2011, 01:26 PM
  #13
Trained
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beauseant    
A horse needs to mind his manners NO MATTER WHERE HE IS.....

I would encourage you NOT to avoid stalling him because of his behaviour, but to teach him that rules are rules, no matter WHAT the situation or WHERE he is....and rule number one: aggression towards humans WILL NOT be tolerated .....PERIOD.

Being an ex racehorse should NEVER EVER be an excuse for such dangerous behavior.
PLEASE be very careful working with this horse. I took many chances for about 20 years with a number of horses with various problems before my luck ran out and I had my arm broken. I had an OTTB, who didn't have stall problems. One time I lost my temper and yelled at hiim (NO excuse for that) when he was in his stall, and he wheeled around and kicked the stall wall next to me so fast that I wouldn't have survived it had I been in the way. TB's are sensitive and hot. (So are Arabians, but hot horses can be docile, like my Arabian "Corporal," was.)

Man, I just posted on another thread here about using your head when you adopt rescues. Since you're looking for help, and you really like the other horse, I would take this TB back to the rescue. There are other good horses out there. My time is too valuable to be wasted defending myself against a horse I spend money feeding/caretaking/training. Just MHO.
Welcome to the forum!
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    10-25-2011, 02:14 PM
  #14
Super Moderator
My opinion on this ill-tempered and ill-mannered horse is that he does not deserve to be rescued and should be shipped to the nearest sale with a warning attached so some unsuspecting 'big-heart' does not get killed or at least has a warning of what is coming.

I would like to know why people want to rescue crazy horses, mean horses and completely crippled horses. Obviously we (or you) cannot save them all. So, why do you not use your limited time, dollars and resources on nice horses and pleasant good-minded prospects? They are killing thousands of nice young prospects and thousands of sound mares that have been ridden at one time and are no longer useful for breeding. I watch 50 to 100 of such horses go through our local sale twice a month. They bring from $75.00 to $300.00 for young thin geldings (usually 2 to 3 year olds and some have Reg Papers and from $200.00 to $500.00 for big fat mares, mostly registered. They are all headed to Mexico and they are all MUCH MORE deserving of your time and money.

I see one or two people at nearly every sale that buy some poor old wretched wreck that is a complete cripple or some spoiled idiot that they think has been abused. I would like to just shake them and ask them why they do not save some nice young useful prospect. If I had the means and the way, I would 'save' 20 or 30 from every sale that would make nice horses.

I know that sometimes a nice horse can be made from a spoiled dink because I used to make a living re-training them. But, that was not when nice young, sound, registered prospects were being killed to $200.00 or less. That was when prospects were bringing $2500.00 or more. [You know, this was back when the Animal Rights and anti-slaughter idiots wanted to save them all from slaughter by making them worth $50.00. That has really worked well hasn't it?]

Anyway, now that nice young prospects can be rescued from the trucks headed to Mexico and Canada, why don't you people do that? Just a question that keeps coming to mind is all.

Carry on.
     
    10-25-2011, 02:21 PM
  #15
Weanling
Quote:
Originally Posted by Corporal    
Since you're looking for help, and you really like the other horse, I would take this TB back to the rescue. There are other good horses out there. My time is too valuable to be wasted defending myself against a horse I spend money feeding/caretaking/training. Just MHO.
Welcome to the forum!
This is a dangerous horse. Point blank. You said you have children and another horse - they (and their safety!) should be your main priority.

This horse is going to hurt someone. Less aggressive horses than this have seriously injured and killed people/pets/other horses.

You have serious warning signs glaring at you in bright neon. There are literally hundreds of perfectly agreeable, safe (as any) horses available for adoption across the country right now, most for very minimal or no charge. I understand you want to give this horse a chance, but you need to consider whether or not the potential dangers are worth it.

You don't say you are a professional trainer, so I'm assuming you aren't. This horse NEEDS a professional who deals with problem/dangerous horses - and those are typically expensive and getting harder and harder to find. Most people aren't willing to risk life and limb to make a horse sociable when they can drive down the road and find a comparable, safe, trainable horse for 500-1000 bucks.
     
    10-25-2011, 02:30 PM
  #16
Trained
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cherie    
...They are killing thousands of nice young prospects and thousands of sound mares that have been ridden at one time and are no longer useful for breeding. I watch 50 to 100 of such horses go through our local sale twice a month. They bring from $75.00 to $300.00 for young thin geldings (usually 2 to 3 year olds and some have Reg Papers and from $200.00 to $500.00 for big fat mares, mostly registered. They are all headed to Mexico and they are all MUCH MORE deserving of your time and money.

I see one or two people at nearly every sale that buy some poor old wretched wreck that is a complete cripple or some spoiled idiot that they think has been abused. I would like to just shake them and ask them why they do not save some nice young useful prospect. If I had the means and the way, I would 'save' 20 or 30 from every sale that would make nice horses.

I know that sometimes a nice horse can be made from a spoiled dink because I used to make a living re-training them. But, that was not when nice young, sound, registered prospects were being killed to $200.00 or less. That was when prospects were bringing $2500.00 or more. [You know, this was back when the Animal Rights and anti-slaughter idiots wanted to save them all from slaughter by making them worth $50.00. That has really worked well hasn't it?]

Anyway, now that nice young prospects can be rescued from the trucks headed to Mexico and Canada, why don't you people do that? Just a question that keeps coming to mind is all.

Carry on.
THANK YOU, CHERIE!!! You took the words right out of MY mouth!! We used to have a slaughthouse 3 hours from me in IL. Bleeding hearts used to complain that the meat market shipped horses 3-5 days, to Mexico, sometimes w/out feed and water, but they didn't. Bleeding hearts CLOSED DOWN this slaughterhouse in IL, and now they DO travel 3-5 days to Mexico, etc. We USED to be able to go to these local auctions to find serviceable horses that you could pretty easily retrain. NOW, most of the horses are wild or crippled, and you see some go through unbid. It just isn't worth it! **falls over, thud**
     
    10-25-2011, 02:46 PM
  #17
Banned
Not meaning to start a fight or anything, just wanting to voice my opinion:

I think some posters are a little too quick to say the OP should give up on this horse....i.e. It's a lost cause.


I've heard this before, in my own life. We were warned not to buy an OTTB. We were told Beau was a fireball, he was dangerous, he was going to kill someone.....and at different points in time, I feared they might be right. But my son made a commitment to TRY to rehab this horse. I had to respect his decision as he was an adult. He is not a professional trainer, he knew his limitations....and his strengths. He has a way with horses...like a modern day horse whisperer....he felt he could reach his OTTB.... and he has.

I know it's a nice story and that some end up quite differently....and I do think that the OP needs to weigh her commitment and time availability (since she has two kids) to give to this horse, and most of all her abilities to deal with a horse like this, because she has two kids that need a mommy....but these are soul searching decisions SHE needs to make herself....

They are not ones we should make for her. Nor should anyone paint a dark picture of this horse and state that it is a lost cause....or that she is incapable of making things work with this horse.....

Because we don't know the horse, nor do we know her!!!

Lighten up, folks......

Can horses like this be retrained? Yes. What does it take? A heck alot of courage, time and a commitment that is rock solid.

OP needs to ask herself if she is willing and/or able to do so.

I take exception to the sentiment that the OP's horse isn't worth saving. We don't know all the facts, we don't know the horse...we don't know her. Some said that our OTTB was dangerous.......

But...look at him now: I hope this video brings tears to the eye. He wasn't worth the effort??? We should have thrown him away and gotten a horse "worth saving"???? WRONG. He was worth every effort....he means the world to us!!!

     
    10-25-2011, 03:03 PM
  #18
Super Moderator
There is a huge difference between a horse that is a fireball and horse that is attacking people, drawing blood and WANTS to kill someone. Can he be re-trained? Maybe. Should he be retrained by a young mother with the responsibility of two young children that need her worse than this horse needs to be saved? Absolutely not.

I do not know if your horse was attacking viciously to the point of hurting himself on the bars of a stall trying to get to you, but I doubt it.

Tell me why it does not make a lot more sense to rehab and train a willing horse with a good disposition instead of this horse -- especially for a young mother of 2 small children. I think keeping this horse is the very epitome of irresponsibility. Sorry, but that is my opinion. After all, she asked for opinions and that is mine -- despite the fact that I have re-trained dozens of mean and aggressive horses when I was younger, more idealistic and very much in the business of training full-time. I will be the first to tell you that some of them made nice horses -- not easily -- but nice all the same. Now that I am older, wiser, more realistic and have known many people that have been killed (2 come to mind that I knew well), severely injured and completely maimed by rogue horses they were trying to work with, I now put my values in a slightly different place.

Add to this, the fact that nice prospects are cheaper that I can recall at any time in the last 25 years, I just see no point.
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    10-25-2011, 03:18 PM
  #19
Banned
That's nice, Cherie. But while stating one's opinion one need not be so aggressive about it....because the OP is on here seeking advice and opinions....not condemnation of her or of the horse. We should help her with open minded advice (as opposed to saying this horse should be thrown away) and tips (as in hiring a professional trainer).....and from those of us who have rehabbed a dangerous horse: what worked or didn't work for us....and real life scenarios from those who have BEEN where she is now.

And YES, Beau was dangerous and actively trying to hurt us. DID you not read the entire thread? I did state that he was whirling and trying to kick my son and rearing and striking out at him with his hooves....contrast that with the video. If you even bothered to watch it.

It's not about what you think makes sense (training this horse vs. that), it's about giving the OP friendly and diplomatic advice, not going on some mini rant about how people waste time and money on dangerous horses when calm ones are going to slaughterhouses...a bit overdramatic, I would say.

I stand by my opinion: the OP needs to do some soul searching to figure out how much time, effort and courage she SHOULD or could devote to this horse. I think we can all agree on that
     
    10-25-2011, 03:37 PM
  #20
Trained
Beauseant, I am very happy for your very happy outcome. **hugs**
We do not know yet what the OP is going to do. I see lots of red flags in the original post, too. I gotta say, If I posted about adopting this OTTB, and Cherie told me I made a mistake, I'd be planning to get rid of him. Maybe you should PM Cherie? =/ She has LOTS of good training advice. I'd be driving over to see her and pick her brain quite often...but...she lives in OK, and I live in IL--maybe we'll meet up if DH wants to go trail riding in OK, sometime!
     

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