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Help with Biting and kicking

This is a discussion on Help with Biting and kicking within the Horse Training forums, part of the Training Horses category
  • Youtube,beauseant thoroughbred

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    10-25-2011, 03:51 PM
  #21
Banned
Thanks, Corporal.

I am not saying cherie is wrong in urging the OP to consider whether to keep this horse carefully, and to seriously consider the time and effort horses like this require. I didn't mention that getting Beau to where he is in the video took EXTENSIVE commitment. My son literally ground worked him EVERY SINGLE DAY for almost a year before feeling that he could work on under saddle issues. A YEAR of daily ground work....

Another thing is the fear issue. Training a horse like this takes alot of courage. It's no walk in the park to keep your cool and remember your training when confronted with a rearing horse and a set of hooves whooshing by your face close enough you can feel the wind on your cheek.....

BUT, I don't think that a discussion of whether this horse is WORTH being trained or not is helpful to the OP.

ALL ...well, most.....horses are WORTH being trained, the REAL question is whether the OP could or SHOULD be someone to do it. And only SHE can decide that.....

I would say to the OP: retraining a horse like yours CAN be done. But doing so requires alot of time, alot of patience, alot of courage....and knowledge of training techniques. YOu cannot just train a horse with heart and courage, you need to know HOW....

Considering that you are a mother of two kids, also consider the considerable risk to your health and life.

It CAN be done, but should a mother with two children be the one to do it?

Only YOU can answer for yourself.
     
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    10-26-2011, 08:17 AM
  #22
Weanling
Experience is the huge defficiency with this particular scenario.
Taking on a rank horse for rehab requires experience.
Cherie is right. This nice lady has taken on a bit more than she should attempt to do. The OP has also stated she is in fear for the safety of her children.
That tells me she knows it is a matter of time before someone gets hurt.
Time to take him back and find a quiet horse.
The right person with the amount of knowledge required to fix this horse would be a great scenario. Beausant had wonderful results with her rescue because she has a son who had some training with some very reputable trainers and he was able to focus on the horse. Great results.
The OP has much more to consider, she is a mom, she has a family to care for.
     
    10-26-2011, 08:40 AM
  #23
Showing
What I am going to suggest is that this gal always carry a riding crop. Horses milling in the barn are dangerous. As each tries to dominate another, their respect for the handler rapidly diminishes. Waving a crop at the horses is usually enough to back them off. The horses should really be in individual stalls, doors closed, and turned out one by one. A lunge whip kept by the gate will move the already pastured horse away so the next can be turned out. Keeps everyone respectful. This should be part of the routine.
natisha likes this.
     
    10-26-2011, 10:46 AM
  #24
Banned
Quote:
Originally Posted by Annnie31    
Experience is the huge defficiency with this particular scenario.
Taking on a rank horse for rehab requires experience.
Cherie is right. This nice lady has taken on a bit more than she should attempt to do. The OP has also stated she is in fear for the safety of her children.
That tells me she knows it is a matter of time before someone gets hurt.
Time to take him back and find a quiet horse.
The right person with the amount of knowledge required to fix this horse would be a great scenario. Beausant had wonderful results with her rescue because she has a son who had some training with some very reputable trainers and he was able to focus on the horse. Great results.
The OP has much more to consider, she is a mom, she has a family to care for.
I agree with this.

Because there were times when we first got our boy that I feared for my son's life. One particular incident stands out where Beau threw a fit while my son was leading him out to pasture, he was on two legs, striking out with his front hooves right in my son's face. I panicked. I was with another boarder, watching...and I yelled for the boarder's daughter to go get the BO(who is a twice licensed trainer/instructor and who owns 4 OTTBs of her own)...the boarder said NO...she had to physically restrain me from going to get the BO, saying "he's handling it, he's keeping his cool...and "he's got to do this himself if he wants to keep this horse"..." BO won't always be around"...etc

My heart was in my throat....

Those were scary days....and I must admit.....i have no wish for my son to take on another wild OTTB rescue, despite the success he's had with this one. It's hard to believe our gray love bug is the same horse as the one in the story above.....he's changed and matured sooo much. And I am as proud of Beau as I am of my son for taking on this challenge. And I love them both so much......

But I have no wish to relive those early days of fear and danger....
     
    10-27-2011, 10:05 AM
  #25
Started
From reading everyone elses posts they are very negative. I don't think every horse should be saved but that is up to the owner. I agree I will beauseant that its up to you and yes others like cherie are very set on there ways and I usually agree with them. But I don't agree with letting that be my only opinion when you have options.

My twh is no way off any track. But when I started putting weight on him he became more aggressive. And would attack me just like your guy does. I never got a trainer and sometimes I wish I did for some things that I am still working on. But if I didn't do it I wouldn't know how to handle him, nor would I know what sets him off, or what makes him trust.
Saying all that. I would keep your horse out of the stall. If he is calmer in the field keep him there. Always carry a lunge whip. Start working with him in the field immediately with ground work(i would do some sort of join up). Force him to move and when he gives signs of wanting to be with you let him stop and come in. If he doesn't keep working him. This could takes weeks. My guy was very strong willed and it took me 2 weeks before I cracked him to want to be with me. Once I established I had authority in the field I worked him outside the field in a round pen. Do the same thing. You want to make him trust and want to rely on you.
And someone mentioned it that you should work him slowly to the barn and with his stall. I agree. Its easier to fix problems in the open field where you can work him. But do not attempt to do so until you redo his ground manners. He needs to be able to walk on the lead without any problems before attempting his stall maddness.
Once you have his leading back to a well mannered horse then progress to the barn and stall problems. But do it slow its a small confined space and both if not just one of you can get hurt. This part I would reccommend the trainer for. This can be tricky and you are mommy :) congrats. But I would hate to know your children couldnt grow up with you bc of this guy.
If you really want to keep him. Think about the time commitment. If you can not commit then hire a professional who can. If you can not afford it then think maybe its time to send him back and get a better suited horse for your lifestyle. I bet you kids would love to learn how to ride rather then being threatened by an aggressive horse.

Goodluck with whatever your choice is. It is YOUR choice but think of all sides you need to worried about.
     
    10-30-2011, 11:55 PM
  #26
Yearling
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beauseant    

But...look at him now: I hope this video brings tears to the eye. He wasn't worth the effort??? We should have thrown him away and gotten a horse "worth saving"???? WRONG. He was worth every effort....he means the world to us!!!

Thoroughbred "indoor" horse * OTTB hates rain - YouTube
Beauseant... what a sweet boy you have there! Interesting that while I was listening to and watching the video clip, my rescue greyhound came over and loved the heck out of me. This was a dog that we hated at first because he was catatonic but we turned him into the sweetest and most affectionate guy... he will sometimes even give kisses! It took patience, perseverence, and almost a year. Of course there is no correlation between canines and equines, but this guy is my favorite of all the rescue greyhounds we have had, simply because he seemed so hopeless at first.

Back to the topic, I agree with Cherie, in that there are so many rescues available who are not dangerous and that need a good home and a job. Why take a risk on your life?
     
    11-01-2011, 08:58 PM
  #27
Foal
I'm no horse training expert - let me just start by saying that. But I do agree with a number of people on this thread. (Even if they don’t agree with each other )

The OP has clearly taken on a horse with a lot of issues. Dangerous issues that can and very likely will get someone seriously hurt. Kudos to her for wanting to help such a horse where others would walk away. However, like a very popular thread in the "training" section of this site - there is a time when you have to decide for yourself when to stick with it (be the hero), or walk away from it.

Being a mother of two, your free time to work with this horse is already limited. A horse like this is going to require daily work for at least an hour or more to get anywhere with his respect and manners alone. And it will take the knowledge of how to correctly apply these techniques for them to work. Remember, badly timed, incorrect or poorly applied discipline can do more harm than good - especially on a horse like this. It could set him off. Time and experience are two things you'll NEED to have to even begin cracking the surface of this horse's issues.

This is where the "stick with it/walk away from it" comes in. After all, what happens next will be up to you.

You have to decide for yourself if you think you can handle it effectively and objectively, NOT out of blind emotion or hope that this horse will turn around. OR you need to admit that this horse it above your level of knowledge and expertise and is better off being handled by someone else. Am I saying that this horse isn't WORTH saving? Absolutely not. I think there's a part of us all that hope (no matter how small), that horses like this can be turned around. And, like Beau’s post - there are success stories, but there again her son had the time and expertise to commit to the horse.

In the end, it's all going to come down to you. KNOW your limits and your level of experience and be able to ADMIT it. Ask yourself what you're willing to risk to work with this one horse. Ask yourself if you have the expertise to fix his issues. Ask yourself if you have the free time to commit to him. If you even hesitate in saying 'yes' to ANY of these, odds are you're better off giving him to someone who can confidently say yes to all of the above. Do NOT, out of stubborn pride (this is coming from someone who used to be VERY stubborn), stick with a challenge that is beyond your abilities. It's going to get you, or your children, hurt. BADLY. It would be a real tragedy if the next post from you was telling us about another dangerous incident in which one of your children was seriously hurt.

My personal thoughts? I would admit that this horse (based on the original post) is WAY beyond what I know how to handle. My first instinct would be to reach out to trainers in the area and let them know the situation and see if any of them would be willing to come work on him, or would take him, if I was concerned about the shelter euthanizing him. Then I would look for a horse I could enjoy and work with that was more akin to my level of knowledge. There are plenty of good horses out there in need of rescue, re-homing, or just purchase for cheap. In fact, a friend of mine got a SPECTACULAR 4 yr old registered quarter horse for $500.
     
    11-01-2011, 09:04 PM
  #28
Trained
I think it's all a figment of the OPs imagination. She made the two posts in this thread and then disappeared.
     
    11-01-2011, 09:15 PM
  #29
Trained
While I would not jump to the conclusion that this horse is a bad apple, he is seriously lacking in training and respect. This horse needs to be with an experienced trainer who can determine if he can be properly retrained.
     

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