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Help! Is it ever okay to smack them on the rear?

This is a discussion on Help! Is it ever okay to smack them on the rear? within the Horse Training forums, part of the Training Horses category
  • Smacking a horses butt to get it to go
  • What happens when you smack a horses butt with a crop

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    06-07-2013, 07:15 AM
  #11
Trained
What do you plan to do with this horse? It makes me nervous when you say "that won't be necessary", especially if you plan to use this horse for something that you are not ready for, but do not realize it. I mean no offense to you at all, but I would worry for your safety is all.

You can check out his show on RFD-TV as well, and on downunderhorsemanship.tv
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    06-07-2013, 07:31 AM
  #12
Foal
Quote:
Originally Posted by SorrelHorse    
What do you plan to do with this horse? It makes me nervous when you say "that won't be necessary", especially if you plan to use this horse for something that you are not ready for, but do not realize it. I mean no offense to you at all, but I would worry for your safety is all.

You can check out his show on RFD-TV as well, and on downunderhorsemanship.tv
My only reason for saying it is unnecessary is because my boyfriends family trains horses. I haven't brought him up there yet but I am supposed to start. So I will be working with a trainer as far as teaching him beyond basic riding and trail riding which he already knows he is just testing me. For this particular problem I want to see what I can do and he has come a long way from when I got him to correcting these habits. I did have a family friend help a little on the rearing and he just said work on backing him on the ground and that should solve itself. The rearing was my fault. The walking himself to the barn is the big problem for now. The only thing he seems to respond to is a couple whacks on the rear and I wasn't sure if that was ethical as I have just seen a lot of "Never ever punish a horse ever for anything" online and in different training videos.

I am really really trying. I hate to sound stupid or inexperienced I am inexperienced but I will gain his respect the right way if it takes me two years and a lot of fight. I am just making sure smacking him on the butt is not the wrong thing in that situation. Again he is not aggressive just stubborn and the previous owner told me he needs a strong hand. Unfortunately he tells me this after he is home for two weeks after I was told he was an excellent kid safe beginner horse.
     
    06-07-2013, 08:13 AM
  #13
Showing
Black, a horse can't rear if you keep him moving. His body goes thro a number of transitions before it can happen. First he has to be able to plant his hind legs. In order to rear he has to rock back and this is when his body will bunch as he prepares to lift. You will feel him widen. Don't give him the opportunity to stop. When you feel him getting reluctant with forward movement get him moving in small circles, less than 20' and serpentines. This forces him to place his inside hind under his belly in front of his other leg. (Think removing a leg from a table. It will remain standing but it sure doesn't have the strength it did.) When you say you smack his butt, try the ribs behind your leg. If you do hit his rump it can provoke a buck. This is instinctive. I have found that after a horse has had a smack on the ribs, often just threatening to do it provides lots of incentive to do as you ask.
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    06-07-2013, 08:28 AM
  #14
Foal
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saddlebag    
Black, a horse can't rear if you keep him moving. His body goes thro a number of transitions before it can happen. First he has to be able to plant his hind legs. In order to rear he has to rock back and this is when his body will bunch as he prepares to lift. You will feel him widen. Don't give him the opportunity to stop. When you feel him getting reluctant with forward movement get him moving in small circles, less than 20' and serpentines. This forces him to place his inside hind under his belly in front of his other leg. (Think removing a leg from a table. It will remain standing but it sure doesn't have the strength it did.) When you say you smack his butt, try the ribs behind your leg. If you do hit his rump it can provoke a buck. This is instinctive. I have found that after a horse has had a smack on the ribs, often just threatening to do it provides lots of incentive to do as you ask.
Thanks!!!! I have realized that rears are preventable. I am so glad you said that about the smacking though because I do not want a bucking problem to arise. Before he does completely stop what should I do? I have gotten him to the point where reassuring him through talking and light pressure get him to keep moving when he feels reluctant but when he gets closer to the barn he will stop entirely. Won't move any direction, won't go in circles and if he does he will do a circle and then break it to walk to the barn or he will stop. Do I wait until he absolutely refuses or can I do something when I feel he is about to?
     
    06-07-2013, 08:35 AM
  #15
Foal
Quote:
Originally Posted by usandpets    
HowClever hit it dead on. Horses are not pets. Loving on them is for our benefit only. Some may like attention but we mistake it as affection.

As long as there is a reason, ask-tell-demand with a smack, there is nothing wrong. If you smack for no reason or smack to start with, that is where you lose your bond or trust with the horse.

You are not going to hurt the horse anywhere close to what another horse would with a kick. The do have good feeling in their skin where they can feel a fly land on them. However, they can also take a solid kick from another horse and hardly flinch from it.

Hitting the horse when you're angry or frustrated is not good. Frustration begins where knowledge ends. If you're getting frustrated, take a step back, try something simpler or get some help. No one knows everything and we all need help at some point. There's nothing wrong with asking for help.
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I have asked a lot for help. I was just seeing other opinions and ideas. I am starting to understand how horses act naturally and that helps a lot. I am not ashamed to admit when I need help I just know with his progress so far it is more of a time issue. I am just trying to figure out the best way possible to correct him rather than doing what works the fastest.
     
    06-07-2013, 11:11 AM
  #16
Trained
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackTWH    
Thanks!!!! I have realized that rears are preventable. I am so glad you said that about the smacking though because I do not want a bucking problem to arise. Before he does completely stop what should I do? I have gotten him to the point where reassuring him through talking and light pressure get him to keep moving when he feels reluctant but when he gets closer to the barn he will stop entirely. Won't move any direction, won't go in circles and if he does he will do a circle and then break it to walk to the barn or he will stop. Do I wait until he absolutely refuses or can I do something when I feel he is about to?
You can do a couple of things. First, ditto what another poster said about the rearing, quickest way out of that is to keep him moving forward at a working pace. That said, when he even thinks of slowing down, you tighten your leg and ask him to move out again. If he doesn't, I wear spurs and carry a crop, and I tap with a spur as more of a "Tell" him to move forward. If he still won't, I let him have it with spurs and crop, on his ribs, and I keep at it til he moves on. Not sissy gigs or taps, he gets both heels hard and whacks that get progressively harder. You can end up in a real fight here, so I'd recommend a trainer.

When he tries to break the circle, grab the inside rein and pull his head clear to your knee if you have to, to keep him bent and circling, and apply your legs as hard as necessary to keep him moving. Get progressively tougher until he gives you what you want. Again, you can end up in a Hayell of a fight at this point, and you could end up getting hurt if it gets really ugly, so a trainer would be your best bet.

Since you say you're a new rider, I'd really suggest taking the horse to a trainer to have those nasty little habits taken out of him, if you get into a fight with him, you could get hurt. Once the trainer re-educates him, you can ride safely and learn how to fix any issues as they crop up, under the trainer's supervision. MUCH SAFER way to go than what you're trying right now.

Notice I said, when you feel HE"S GOING TO TRY to slow down, stop or break out of the circle, not wait til he does it. If you make him work for thinking about it, pretty soon he'll quit thinking dirty thoughts and just start listening to you.

I don't care if the trainer is your boyfriend's uncle, a good trainer is a good trainer, and they can keep you safe. I've been riding for over 40 years and I can stick just about anything they want to throw at me, and I use a trainer to get the horse going where I want it and to work with me on various things. I don't bounce so good anymore, so I pay the trainer to take my lumps.
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    06-07-2013, 11:56 AM
  #17
Foal
A huge thanks to everyone! I rode him today eliminated rearing entirely. He tried to stop so I applied pressure. Eventually I just had to give him a 3/4 strength blow to the ribs. He did everything I wanted and when I could feel him giving signs that he was going to stop, slow down, or turn around I just had to lightly tap his rib. I also made him work really hard cantering in circles when he didn't stop all the way or moved without my permission. Did serious ground work and did not allow him to disrespect me at all. I may be a green rider as I have never rode a horse that didn't listen but I am learning and it is working. I will use a trainer but the basic problems I think I can handle now. So thank you guys again.

And when I first got him he would not back up just rear. Now he backs up with a little bit of resistance but we are working on it. I am also really watching his form on everything to make sure I get it right.
     
    06-07-2013, 11:57 AM
  #18
Foal
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dreamcatcher Arabians    
You can do a couple of things. First, ditto what another poster said about the rearing, quickest way out of that is to keep him moving forward at a working pace. That said, when he even thinks of slowing down, you tighten your leg and ask him to move out again. If he doesn't, I wear spurs and carry a crop, and I tap with a spur as more of a "Tell" him to move forward. If he still won't, I let him have it with spurs and crop, on his ribs, and I keep at it til he moves on. Not sissy gigs or taps, he gets both heels hard and whacks that get progressively harder. You can end up in a real fight here, so I'd recommend a trainer.

When he tries to break the circle, grab the inside rein and pull his head clear to your knee if you have to, to keep him bent and circling, and apply your legs as hard as necessary to keep him moving. Get progressively tougher until he gives you what you want. Again, you can end up in a Hayell of a fight at this point, and you could end up getting hurt if it gets really ugly, so a trainer would be your best bet.

Since you say you're a new rider, I'd really suggest taking the horse to a trainer to have those nasty little habits taken out of him, if you get into a fight with him, you could get hurt. Once the trainer re-educates him, you can ride safely and learn how to fix any issues as they crop up, under the trainer's supervision. MUCH SAFER way to go than what you're trying right now.

Notice I said, when you feel HE"S GOING TO TRY to slow down, stop or break out of the circle, not wait til he does it. If you make him work for thinking about it, pretty soon he'll quit thinking dirty thoughts and just start listening to you.

I don't care if the trainer is your boyfriend's uncle, a good trainer is a good trainer, and they can keep you safe. I've been riding for over 40 years and I can stick just about anything they want to throw at me, and I use a trainer to get the horse going where I want it and to work with me on various things. I don't bounce so good anymore, so I pay the trainer to take my lumps.
Hopefully I won't need a crop and spurs but I will get some just in case. He is responding very well to me being aggressive and I will not let any of these habits resurface if they do I will most definitely call a trainer.
     
    06-07-2013, 12:04 PM
  #19
Trained
Black-I have a couple of thoughts. In reading your posts, I see a whole lot of making of excuses for the horse. I would caution you NOT to make excuses. You need to make him do as you ask. Period. However, I also have a horse (happens to be a black TWH X) who tests constantly. I have had trainers, and will continue to have I am sure, at times to "tune him up", as well as refresh ME in keeping him sharp. BUT, I have to be careful, and I would guess that your guy may be similar-he is NOT one you can put a whole lot of pressure on. Yes, you have to demand, but you also have to make sure he is not confused before you do that. Some horses-mine, and I suspect yours, are really too smart and too sensitive, and a trainer who is TOO harsh will get you nowhere. THey are very tricky to deal with for sure, and you really DO need professional help. I have been riding for 40+ yrs and this horse is a real challenge. Get help, and get it NOW before he really gets dangerous.
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    06-07-2013, 12:05 PM
  #20
Trained
Do not for a minute believe that in one session you have ended his issues.
     

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help me out, misbehaving, rearing, smacking horse, training advice

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