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Help! Is it ever okay to smack them on the rear?

This is a discussion on Help! Is it ever okay to smack them on the rear? within the Horse Training forums, part of the Training Horses category

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        06-08-2013, 07:43 PM
      #41
    Trained
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Palomine    
    As for watching CA? I can think of no one worse to watch.
    I see you saying this a lot and I REALLY want to know your reasoning. I am not a CA follower in the sense that I own every dvd and the handy stick and string, but I have gone to his clinics and had the pleasure of working and speaking with him. I agree with everything in your post EXCEPT that. I can think of a lot of worse trainers than him, and regardless I find that he explains things to beginners very well.
         
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        06-08-2013, 09:14 PM
      #42
    Weanling
    Originally Posted by Palomine
    As for watching CA? I can think of no one worse to watch.


    I like CA..everyones preference is different..only bad in ur eyes doesnt mean he is bad for everyone, anf doesnt make it wrong that people follow him

    I like what he says..one big whack is better then a thousand little ones
    demonwolfmoon likes this.
         
        06-08-2013, 09:45 PM
      #43
    Green Broke
    To each their own with who they do or don't like. Everyone has their reasons. But to put a blank statement that you should avoid such and such trainer for no reason told isn't right.

    I've said before, I like CA because he's easy to understand and follow along. He gives a reason why to do things instead of this is what you do, period. I do follow his techniques but haven't bought a single thing he sells. You don't have to.
    Posted via Mobile Device
         
        06-08-2013, 10:40 PM
      #44
    Started
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by BlackTWH    
    My first reaction is no. I don't want to smack him it would break our bond and I am sure there is a gentler way. I am finding no way around it.

    I am a pretty green rider so I purchased a horse that said kid safe in huge letters with no vices. I rode him at the place I purchased him and he tested me a little bit but did what I asked.

    When I got him home he was good the first day but as he started to feel me out he realized I was not an aggressive rider. When I messaged the trainer who previously owned him he said I have to get somewhat physical with him while he is testing me. I didn't want to naturally but he is putting me in dangerous situations.

    He rears up when he can get his head up. Which I have gotten to almost go away just by fixing my riding errors.

    He takes me into corners and does not turn for anything.

    He drags me through trees.

    Does not respond to gentle pressure whatsoever.

    I do groundwork and love on him. But in the saddle he listens for about 10-45 minutes, depending on the day, then tries to go back to the barn. I have had him for a month and I have worked with him every single day and he always comes right to me from the start.

    But when I am cornered and he refuses to move in any direction at all. And rears if I try to turn him out and doesn't move when I kick him.

    Is it okay to smack him on the rear to get out of there.
    Sounds like you have a hand full. All riders were green at one time, and some still are, and they buy green broke horses for one reason or another. I do.

    I have had two green broke horse that I needed to work with and one well trained one. NO such thing as a bomb proof horse they all revert to instinct when the need arises. My present acqusitions are one green broke gelding and one well trained mare. AS for getting him to move. Redirect him by asking him to move his front feet to the side, then forward, it has worked for me. It is important from the respect angle to get him to move.

    Lets take the mare for example. Great horse for the first 4 weeks then it all turned to poo. She decided she was the boss and I had to fight her for that position. She also had to learn my signals and I HAD to learn hers. She would let me know if I was doing something that annoyed her and I had to find a way to get her to do what I wanted, while she thought she was doing what she wanted, Bit like a relationship only one winner.

    Did I ever hit her, Yes, and it in my opinion was a mistake. The best responce was a loud growl it worked most times.

    Now for the green broke horse. He tries to rear when loading into the float A new behavour he is trying it on. A loud growl and a sharp pull to the side on the lead rope then presented to the float again and in he went. He will get over that. Rearing when in the saddle that can be a hard one but I tied his head down a little so he could not thrash it backwards and hit me which made it a little harder to rear. Also the growl, must remember the growl and it is instant. Not 30 seconds later as he has moved on and has no idea what is wrong.

    Once he has done what you want right repeat that daily untill it is ingrained.

    The replys you have recieved have all been well intended so don't feel you have been got at.

    I have a problem with one of my horses loading she will flatly refuse and she is a little large to try and force. On one attempt she was 90 per cent in and would not go the rest, and when I tried to be forcefull she ever so lightly lifted the back leg in a threat. Only just off the ground I spotted it taped it with the wip and growled. She put it down again. Its a game who is the boss.

    And on leaving, I to want to train my horse to do what I want when I want. I have learnt it is a partnership but there has the be the boss and then the second in command The horse is second.

    If the horse does something that you do not have the experience to deal with, get in some one who can deal with it. In the long run it saves the horse getting confused, and you, as I have done, learnt a new trick to add to the ones needed when owing a horse.

    Good luck. Keep posting and asking questions. You may not always like the answers but generally folks on this forum are well meaning.

    As always I own the spelling mistakes.
         
        06-08-2013, 10:46 PM
      #45
    Started
    A foot note

    One of my mare's tried to bite me. My instant responce was to give her a bunch of fives right on the snout She never did that again. The only time I have really hauled off and hit a horse.

    She was a little head shy for a week or so but got over it.
         
        06-09-2013, 12:07 AM
      #46
    Yearling
    I haven't read the whole thread either (my disclaimer), but here's my 2 cents.

    *I* think that if you wouldn't let a dog do it, don't let a horse do it. And by that, I mean...have you ever known those people with the snotty little nasty dogs? **** dogs get away with everything...being snarky over food, nipping, acting dominant etc. Heck, everyone going into my BIL's house is told "don't make eye contact" with the Chihuahua or he'll bark all day (and try to bite!!!). I mean, worst dog ever, tiny little *******, but he RULES THAT HOUSE.

    Now, people have horses, and they let them get away with crazy crap, all for the same reason: they don't know how to make an ANIMAL respect them, for whatever reason or another. Now, we're all told that a dog is happiest knowing the chain of command so to speak...if he knows you're alpha, you have a lot less snark. Well it seems to be the same with horses...this girl at my barn, her QH mare walks all over her, nasty beast. Walks right through her, pulls...just bossy. I told her that if the mare won't get out of her way, walks through her etc...smack her butt with the lead rope! I mean this poor lady is being dragged across the yard by this mare! She says in this aghast voice that "No, I can't do that", all while trying to pull back on this thousand plus pound bag of muscle.

    ...And next thing you know, she's wanting to sell that mare.

    Long story short is, the horse is probably happier if you're in charge...less work for him. And the horse will be a heck of a lot more enjoyable if it respects you! The thing is, that if you let them walk all over you, any horse will take advantage! I'm no trainer...but it seems to me that "taking advantage" is something that just about any animal will do, given a chance. So don't take this in a bad way, because it's not intended that way but....as they say "grow a backbone", stand up to your horse, gain it's respect, and you will have a much better time together, and even strengthen the "bond" you desire.
         
        06-09-2013, 01:51 AM
      #47
    Foal
    Thanks everyone! I have some done the things suggested and there is no rearing or walking back to the barn or into trees. He also backs up without the threat to rear! It has been going great and he is learning I am the boss. He did step on my foot once which is disrespectful but it was getting dark and I didn't get him in soon enough and he couldn't see that well. And I corrected that and he stayed back. Now he is a joy! Of course he will tense up but I reassure him when I feel something about to happen and he loosens up! I am so happy! I know it is a work in progress but it is coming along !
    Posted via Mobile Device
         
        06-09-2013, 12:09 PM
      #48
    Super Moderator
    CA is certainly a very good trainer but people forget that he's also very strong, tough and experienced so he knows where to put himself to stay out of danger and I think some people watching him work with problem horses can think its easier than it is and so take on more than they can deal with
    Getting that aggressive with certain horses can go badly wrong - he has the insight to know when & where to use those techniques that an inexperienced person might not - a defensive horse will turn on you without even a second thought no matter how hard you punch it
    Theres also a real risk that you're punishing a horse for something that's actually your fault
         
        06-09-2013, 12:42 PM
      #49
    Weanling
    I ride a horse who needs a rider that knows her.

    So a few things:
    1) Have a vet check her teeth. The horse I am currently riding I hadn't rode for about half a year and when I saddled her up in the fall she would not turn, kept balking, etc... After getting teeth done she changed.

    2) Have a trainer AND/OR saddle fitter/maker checker her to see if your tack is fitting correctly. This was also one of our issues.

    I got a custom saddle maker who is very very well known to come out and he helped me for free. I'm sure you can find one to come out for free :)

    ----

    Now that you have ruled out those things... Now behavioral:
    1) Discipline him! I am not one to like to use a crop because then I believe in not the right hands the horse can get used to not listening without it. Back his butt up! I was at a show with a 'built like a tank thoroughbred' riding western and she would not walk forward because she was buddy sour, at the end of the show I turned her around and backed her from the arena all the way to the trailer. Which wasn't the shortest distance away either. Don't jerk back on their head, ask your horse to back using foot cues, not rein cues. A foot cue means "move" not go "forward".

    2) Spin, if he won't go forwards, get his head around and if he won't turn start bumping his outside shoulder until he does move.

    3) If he doesn't do what you ask him to do, tell him to do it. Ride with your body more. I ride 2/3 with foot cues and the rest with rein cues. When you turn don't just pull the rein, give a foot cue to move his hip and shoulder. When I stop the horse I ride from a canter I sit back then give a quick bump at the girth with 2 legs and she will stop. If I need to add some rein in there I will.
    Stan likes this.
         
        06-11-2013, 09:12 AM
      #50
    Foal
    Thanks everyone I appreciate this. After trying a lot of these techniques he doesn't rear, backs quietly, and comes to complete stops. We are still working on these things but he just gets testy I quickly reassure him if he starts thinking of misbehaving and the second he starts to misbehave and even a hair before I rebuke him and he does what I ask
         

    Tags
    help me out, misbehaving, rearing, smacking horse, training advice

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