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Help With A Hard To Catch Horse

5K views 36 replies 17 participants last post by  beau159 
#1 ·
I've had Gus for just a little over a month now. The first week he was not a problem to catch. I could walk right up to him for the first few days, then he graduated to walking a few steps away and stopping. By week two, he was all out GALLOPING around the 5 acre pasture. I locked him into a one acre pasture and made a little progress as I was able to "corner" him to get to him, but after about a week of that, he figured out how to time it so that when I was about 3 steps from being able to block him into the corner, he would tear out running. I locked him in the round pen for a couple days and tried going out and working him/bonding with him, but honestly I didn't like him being in there because he needs to put on a little weight right now and needs that good pasture over hay at this point. The first two days of putting him out in the big pasture, I was able to get him to come to the barn for his grain. I'd put a halter on and lead him to the grain. No grain until he got a halter...ever. After day two (feeding him twice a day and a handful in between just to get him to come up) he decided grain was not worth it and when called, he literally RUNS the other direction. I can go out and "herd" him up to the barn for his grain, but that takes between 15-30 minutes, depending on his mood. I can't get close at all before he starts heading another direction. I tried running him hard/keeping him moving and I was out there for 2 hours one morning in the one acre pasture. When I work him in the round pen, I keep him moving, turning, etc. and he will follow me by the end, but I truly don't think we're connecting. He is 4 and he does ride very well. I am not the one who started him. He was just started back in December and he was pushed pretty hard with no ground work, but he is very respectful on the ground and under saddle. He's a good horse, but I just can't seem to get through on this catching issue. I don't understand why it started so suddenly when he was fine with me catching him at first. I did not work him hard or treat him poorly in any way too make him so afraid of me. Any thoughts?
 

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#2 ·
I don't think he's afraid. I think he's being a little arsehole.

Keep him in the round pen. Don't put him in any sized paddock until he's good to catch.

Walk into the round pen and follow him until he lets you touch him, then walk away.

Work towards being able to walk up to him and smooch on him all day long, and then work towards being able to walk up to him and halter him to smooch on him.

DO NOT EVER GIVE UP. You intend to catch him so you WILL catch him and there's nothing he can do about it.

Pinning him in a corner has made this problem much worse. You don't want to do that.

If he wants to run he can run. You just need to calmly follow him around. Just walk, if you run you'll only exhaust yourself. So let him run all he likes, you're not going away, you're going to catch him, and all he's going to do by running is tire himself out.

EDIT; and if I'm wrong and he IS scared, this method works for frightened horses too. In fact when I first got the chestnut in my avatar she was so frightened of people she would break herself trying to get away - from that to the show ring, all I did was use patient persistence and good timing. And she was so frightened she was dangerous.
 
#3 ·
I don't think he's afraid. I think he's being a little arsehole.

Keep him in the round pen. Don't put him in any sized paddock until he's good to catch.

Walk into the round pen and follow him until he lets you touch him, then walk away.

Work towards being able to walk up to him and smooch on him all day long, and then work towards being able to walk up to him and halter him to smooch on him.

DO NOT EVER GIVE UP. You intend to catch him so you WILL catch him and there's nothing he can do about it.

Pinning him in a corner has made this problem much worse. You don't want to do that.


If he wants to run he can run. You just need to calmly follow him around. Just walk, if you run you'll only exhaust yourself. So let him run all he likes, you're not going away, you're going to catch him, and all he's going to do by running is tire himself out.

Thanks for the feedback Blue. Like I said, keeping him in the round pen is not an option. I included the photo to show his weight issue. That takes top priority. If this is not better by the time the pasture is depleted and we have to move them to hay 24/7, I will take the approach of keeping him in the round pen. The thing about him tiring himself...that's why I mentioned working for 2 hours one morning trying to catch him. I did not run AT ALL. I never got closer than the middle of the one acre pasture and he just continued to run and run, no matter whether I was pressuring him or had my back to him trying to remove pressure. For two hours he just continued to move. I finally got fed up and got a bucket of grain, which worked that day...hasn't worked since.

Edit: Once he's in the round pen, I have no issues. I can do whatever to him in there...walk right up with halter ready, rub everywhere, pick up feet, whatever.
 
#4 ·
Hello . Sorry to hear that your having so much trouble catching your horse . The photo of him is lovely . We have all been there and some of us still have trouble catching there horse I know I do some times as not every day is the same . Mine likes playing a game by going near other horse,s when he knows I am chicken about it as if one come to close he goes to go for it .That is if he is out with others as he has been fighting lately so he had been brought in and let out by him self but put out in wee school to catch easily. Keep trying and I am sure you will catch him .take care Purplelady
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#10 ·
There's a few things I do that are successful:

1. For maintenance (once the problem is resolved) -- pay visits and hand out a treat or scratch; then leave. This shows the horse that not every thing is about being worked.

2. For maintenance, again -- hang out in the pasture, walking around looking at the ground (I always find something interesting there), moving in and out of closeness with the horse; then leave.

3. Develop a meandering route to come up to the horse. In other words, don't walk straight at him, staring. Some horses view the direct approach as predatory but will accept someone coming up to them if the person is 'casual' about it.

For me, if a horse starts to walk away from me when I approach, I shift direction slightly and keep going past him/her - I don't turn it into a chase scenario (although it could be argued that if one is fit and fleet of foot they could keep up the chase until the horse finally stops). I'll go up to other horses in the pasture or I'll revert to the wandering around until he settles and then work my way closer. I'll repeat these steps as needed. You can't be in a hurry (calmness and relaxation throughout) and you can't show your frustration or anger (even if you don't physically do anything to him) when you finally do catch him because they're good at spotting those signs.
 
#11 ·
I forgot to say I tried walking out, haltering, walking away. I did that early on so he wouldn't think that every time I went out there he was going to have to work.

He actually came all the way up to me for the FIRST time EVER in the round pen a little bit ago!! I was excited about this until my daughter said he'd been doing that for her for the last four days. LOL I very much believe the trick for him is to keep him locked in that round pen for a very extended period, but I just can't do it right now. I guess I'll have to wait until winter to solve this problem unless someone else has some suggestions.
 
#12 ·
is he alone in the pasture? if there are other horses, approach them and give them scratches and treats, and even chase him off. single him out and make him stay out for a bit from the "fun".

when you are walking him down, be sure that you do not miss occasions where he is possibly thinking about turning back toward you. if you put pressure on during such a point, he will forget about choosing you and he will run.

and , you have to keep the pressure level ON when he is choosing to move away, and especially when he chooses to put his head down to graze, even if he's too far away to really reach. you do this by throwing something at him, or by swinging your rope in the air, or anything that interrupts his peaceful little moment.

the idea is that you watch him and every time he chooses something other than you, you make that choice uncomfortable. when he puts his head up and flees, stop the pressure for a bit becuase you want to see what he will choose. if he chooses to flee, pressure on. if he stops, and hesitates, you hesitate. if he stands and appears to be unable to choose, then he starts to ever so slightly move away, do something (ever so slightly) to bring his eye or ear back on you. not too much, or you'll just tip him over into his decision to leave, but just enough to bring him back to being where he's thinking "which way should I go?" when you see him in that state, pause, maybe turn you chest off to the side a bit. do NOT turn your back on him. that just cuts the connection. but, you can turn off to an angle a bit, and maybe slump your shoulders a bit.

if he starts to come, just stay still. if he chooses to leave, you do the 'ever so slight' attention draw, and if he keeps going, then fall apart!! make him leave in a hurry, but don't do it until you've offered a quiet draw , like a wiggle of your rope, a small scuffle of the ground, a kissing smooch. if he turns his hiney on you, that's when you make that choice very uncomfortable. and if he scoots off all scared, all the better. he 'll be less likely to turn his hiney on you again.

and, I do not think he is underweight, just under muscled, which will change as he ages and you ride. besides, hay/grass will put weight on him better than grain.
 
#15 ·
Well, I caved and decided to just lock him in a small area and put him on hay. :( I upped his grain and added 2 scoops of Cool Calories to his morning feeding. I HATE that he is not out on the pasture, but at least I can easily catch him now. He will generally come up to us when asked or at the very least let us walk right up to him. There were a couple times he tried to get away, but for the most part, he's easy to get a hold of.

I will let him back on the one acre lot when I am prepared to devote an entire day (if necessary) to keeping him moving. I am hoping that keeping him confined and working him in the round pen will change his mind and by the time I put him back out, he'll be ready to let me catch him easily instead of running all day.

When I get to that point, if I still have a hard time, I'll leave him in until next spring. I say next spring because, this winter all the horses will be in a small area together and I will be better able to try the dote on the other two and ignore him tactic.

Thanks for the input everyone.
 
#18 ·
I don't have a lot to add, but I feel your pain. Many years ago the first horse I had as a kid was nearly impossible to catch. She was out in a ~40 acre pasture with about 30 other horses complete with hills, woods, and two creeks. When she ran off, I wouldn't even know what direction to start looking again. I had to improvise a halter from hay strings and stuff it in my back pocket. That way I could walk up with only a carrot in my hand. Yes, this horse was the definition of spoiled! I did what I had to do because I was just a kid with no trainer and no smaller pens for keeping the horse. I wish you much better luck than I had. If the next time you're walking in circles for 2 hours, you can think of me just trying to find the stupid horse that ran off, and you can laugh, I've done my job. :wink:
 
#19 ·
The problem is that you have not made friends with Gus.

If he was pushed hard to be broke and it was a traumatic experience for him, and if every time he sees you he associates you with the same kind of behavior, can you blame him for high tailing for the hills?

Go out get him caught but instead of making him work, rub on him and love on him, give him lots of affection on his neck and on his back, soothe him, get him to calm and relax to your presence, once he relaxes, sit next to him, get a good book and read to him.

Do this right and he will begin to associate good feelings with you so when he hears your voice he will come running to you, not away from you.
 
#20 ·
First, I'd say the person wanting to pm you is probably on the same thought plane as I am.

Respect.

That's all it is. You can smooch and treat your horse all day, but not earn respect. ALL my horses have done this, the worst were the nicest horses who got treats and loving. Not a fear issue, but a sign of disrespect.

My worst horse was the one who'd only ever known a tiny pen, and once in my 3 acre pasture refused to be caught.

Go to youtube, and search catching a horse, see if you can find the video by mr. G o r e it works 100% of the time. His name is banned from this site for some stupid reason, he actually is quite knowledgeable.

It will take some exercise on your part, but it works so well! It's all about pressure, release and moving a horses feet.

Small pen is only a temporary solution. Respect (not meanness, but fairness ). Just like with your kids.
 
#21 ·
It's hard to say about the person who asked me to pm them. I did and haven't got a reply, so who knows? Your guess is as good as mine on that one!

As far as getting respect, I agree and, like I said, I'm working on it.

I'm not a RG fan myself. I just don't like his mouth and general attitude. IMO, he feels no one else compares to him when it comes to horsemanship. He seems to think there is no way but his way and it gets annoying to listen to him! I did watch his video of him catching "Mr. T" the stallion. That is the EXACT approach I was using when I was out there for two hours, except Gus never would come to me. He always took two or three steps, then turned and bolted.

I'll keep trying.
 
#23 ·
I'm not a fan of running horses down and all that jazz and trying to attract them with "I'm the boss, respect me" attitudes (equally abhorrent when a person does it to another person). I think Chevaux gave some very salient advice. I also think that once your horse has pleasant associations with you, he'll be happy to come up. A little bit of carrot as part of your greeting in early days at least doesn't go astray and certainly will save you a lot of walking in the long run. I also agree with keeping the horse in a more confined area until you can get all those positive associations happening.

Horses are right to be wary of people, especially if they haven't had many positive associations with humans. But you can change that, and imposing yourself on a horse does nothing to create positive associations.

If you'd like some inspiration from someone who also doesn't work with what appears to be the in vogue approach on this thread, have a look at this blog from a HF member:

https://augustusthemustang.wordpress.com/

She's a classically based trainer who certainly doesn't have any time for anthropocentric alpha theory approaches either, and her horse is learning to do amazing things in a very short period of time - and is doing things the alpha brigade can't do with their approach. I know which I prefer. By the way, I've taught zoology to university students and am quite bemused by the popular myths going around in animal training.

All the best with your horse, he looks like a good one! :)
 
#27 ·
I'm not a fan of running horses down and all that jazz and trying to attract them with "I'm the boss, respect me" attitudes (equally abhorrent when a person does it to another person).

She's a classically based trainer who certainly doesn't have any time for anthropocentric alpha theory approaches either, and her horse is learning to do amazing things in a very short period of time - and is doing things the alpha brigade can't do with their approach. I know which I prefer. By the way, I've taught zoology to university students and am quite bemused by the popular myths going around in animal training.
Your thoughts on the veracity of alpha theory are shared among some dog handlers, too. I want to respectfully submit that in my view it is not about being Alpha, or dominant, or The Boss, but about teaching my horse that sometimes, with some things, he does not have a choice. Compliance is his JOB. I am not saying there is anything wrong with the "attract more flies with honey than vinegar" application, but I certainly don't want my horse to think he has options in some circumstances. he MUST be caught when I want him caught, he MUST stand tied quietly when I ask him too, and he may NOT walk on me to avoid the Rock Lion in the grass.

As far as the thought that there is no such thing as dominance, aka a pecking order, whether horses or dogs, is entirely wrong. A wild mare establishes her leadership, in part, by telling the herd or an individual when to move and where to graze. Of course, just like humans, some leaders are just mean wenches and some are fair and wise. But by teaching a horse to move his feet when and where we ask it is not about being the boss but about using language he can easily interpret as being similar to his own.

I have two dogs at home, one rescue mutt we raised from a pup and one mixed breed adopted from a friend as a 2 (3?) year old. One is eager to please and the other will challenge authority at every opportunity. I can look at those two dogs and see as clear as day the difference in the mindsets, the one wishes to control every situation with both the other dog and us, but we put an end to his controlling ways to us. However, it is something we have to stay on to of every single day or he will move to be the boss again in our house. And I do not want a 100 pound mastiff cross telling me he can do as he wishes.

Or a thousand pound horse, for that matter.
 
#24 ·
Here's something a friend sent me after reading this thread, and we decided it ought to be added:

Horse: You can't catch me! You can't catch me! You can't catch me!

Person: I have a bucket.

H: You can't...what? What's in the bucket?

P: I don't know.

H: OMG!! WHAT'S IN THE BUCKET??!!!

P: You'll have to come look.

H: ON MY WAY!!


:rofl:
 
#28 ·
I think it's a combination of fear and disrespect. I know of a horse that reminds me of this a lot. The fact that he was easy to catch at first tells me he's having an issue with you, not people in general.

The horse I know was a nice, quiet, easy to catch trail horse. Sensitive, dominant type. He had some beginners on him that galloped him. He tested, the rider didn't respond appropriately and he started miss behaving. It wasn't dealt with immediately, so over time he's regressed further. For this guy it's a combo of the uncertainty of a rider that doesn't lead and winning those tests so he figures he's the boss. He's fearful and dominant, my least favorite combination. He needs major work now.

The op's horse hasn't gone this far. I think it started with the horse maybe being uncertain about his new owner. Maybe the body language was different. So he stepped away. It turned into him realizing he could choose to take off and not come back.

Step one is teaching him where you are in the "herd, earning respect and trust. Once you have those the catching issue will be gone.
 
#30 ·
Its too bad that you feel likeyou cannot reasonably discuss these things with some people, because you are very capable of reasonable discussion yourself. I am sorry if I came off as targeting you, because I did not mean to.

I did equate the terminology "dominance" and "being the boss" with pecking order so I don't feel as if I was as far off base there as you interpreted. And I do know the honey and vinegar reference is over simplified, but did not see the need to use a thousand words when a few would suffice to make my point.

I train my horses with more of a "dominance" mindset (oversimplified) but they both come to the gate or the fence or the shed, whichever is closest to my location, any time I am out and about. Particualrly my gelding, who is always janging over the gate for attention. My goal as a horsewoman is to have horses who comply at "ask," but until they know and are willing I will "tell" as much as I need to.

When you speak of dancing partner I think I know exactly what you mean, to be so in sync that it is like the horse is reading your mind. There is nothing like it in the world! But there is more than one way to get there.
 
#31 ·
I am trying not to get too excited, but Gus has been doing wonderful about being caught the last couple of days. He earned himself the full day out in the small pasture today and I'm going to let him stay out there as long as he continues to prove he's earned it. Right now, he's just running one or two laps and one time he didn't run at all, just came on to me when I asked. He comes on up to me in less than five minutes and I can certainly deal with that! HUGE turn around from two months ago!
 
#32 ·
Sounds like you are making progress on solving your problem. I will share what worked with a couple of my horses; may not work in your situation, but maybe for others.

I had two horses that were hard to catch. One of them the first time we caught her after a long move it took three hours and in the end had to rope her...and this is in a 12 X 36 pen so she didn't have a lot of room. Every time I went to the stable, I would walk into her pen with a halter and call her. If she walked up to me and let me catch her, I would brush her or otherwise do something she liked (NOTE: it took more than 3 months to get so this even happened SOMETIMES). If she didn't, I would start her moving and keep her moving. If she acted like she wanted to stop, I would stop the pressure and see if she would come up, if not, I started her moving again. I also made sure that she always faced me when she stopped--so that she couldn't kick. But this isn't what really worked. After 3 months we moved to a different stable. The horses were in 10X20 paddocks, but there was a large arena where we could let them run. I would walk into a paddock with a halter, if the horse didn't come up and stand quietly while I put the halter on, it stayed in the paddock while the others were let out to run. While horses were in the arena, I would clean paddocks and put out the evening feeding. So the horses learned very quickly that if they didn't get caught, they were left behind while the others went to play. And even my 'hard to catch' horses wanted to be caught to go back to eat. We had the horses there almost a year and by the end of that time all the horses were easy to catch--even two years later on pasture.
 
#35 ·
I don't know why I did it, but I couldn't resist and let Gus out in the big pasture this evening. It didn't go as bad as it could have, but it didn't go smoothly either. There was quite a bit of running on his part, but ultimately, he let me go up to him, and eventually, he ended up coming to me.

At first, he walked away when I walked toward him. Of course that made me make him run. After quite a bit of run, let me get close, run some more, he finally decided to stand still and let me approach. I did this a few times, approach, retreat, approach again, retreat, call him too me and he eventually started coming to me but I had to get within about 5 feet.

Then Biscuit came over and they both started running. After a few minutes of that (this is about 4 1/2 acres of pasture and it took me a while to catch up to them) he finally stopped running, I got within about 20 feet of him, called him to me and he came. Actually, he TROTTED over to me. lol I asked him to follow me and he did. Then I walked away and decided to call it a night and give it another try in the morning.

I went over to the fence and he looked like he was going to come over there with me, so I sat down on the ground. He grazed his way closer and closer until he finally came right up to me and sniffed my head. I kissed his nose, he walked off to graze some more, and I ended with that.

The whole process lasted about 30 minutes. That's certainly not "good" but not as bad as it could have been either. I will go out there tomorrow and see how things go. Hopefully he just had to get it out of his system his first time out and he'll be better from now on.
 
#36 ·
I just thought I'd give an update for anyone who cares. lol Gus has been in the big pasture now since the 11th. That's almost 3 weeks of SUCCESS!!!! I can walk right up to him, or I can walk out and stop sometimes 10, sometimes 20 and sometimes even up to 30 feet (give or take) and ask him to come to me. He doesn't always come, he doesn't ever come right away (he has to spend time grazing first, and he will graze his way to me one or two steps at a time before he actually picks up his head and walks to me), but I am calling it a success. I honestly do not mind if I have to go right up to him every time, as long as I can walk up to him and he not go away. Words can not even begin to express the amount of relief I am feeling! The bottom photo was taken just a couple days ago, the top was taken right after I brought him home about 3 months ago.
 

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