HELP! He is out of control!!
 
 

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HELP! He is out of control!!

This is a discussion on HELP! He is out of control!! within the Horse Training forums, part of the Training Horses category
  • How to handle a guy if he is out of control
  • How to handle out of control horses

 
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    10-13-2010, 11:11 AM
  #1
Foal
Exclamation HELP! He is out of control!!

Ok so when I first got my guy nash I posted on here asking what to do about his little problems. I got him to where I could saddle him get on him and all kinds of stuff.. then he got sick, he couldnt work work because his lungs were all clogged up so I took the time while he was on the meds to work with his feet and just letting me love all over him, which he would be very ancy about. He was doing good, I went away for the weekend and my mom and dad were taking care of him for me. When I got back he was a little pushier than before, I was like ok when you get pushy you go back to your stall and we try again, id leave him alone for a minute or two and try again, the pushier he got the more I left him alone, the more I left him alone the angrier he got...

Well I started using a chain, which I know most of you just gasped at that but i've learned that chain helps with a little bit of extra authority... Now understand that my guy is BARELY 14hh... so he's kind of a little thing when I was dealing with 16hh horses before I got him... he was doing good with the chain and everything and just one day he decided he was going to start beating on my arabian gelding.... my arabian was like "dude wth?" so I tried to keep them seperated as best I could if they were out in the field they left each other alone, if I went to bring nash in and louie got anywhere near him nash would kick at him, if I brought louie in first nash would run up behind him and start biting his butt or run in front of him and try to kick him.... WITH ME STANDING RIGHT THERE!!! So I had to go and get reanforcements when it comes to bringing them in.... well the lady who owns the barn sometimes turns him out for me in the mornings if I have to go to work early... she comes up to me two days ago and says I can't take nash out he scares me... he charges her when she tries to take him out of his stall, if she puts my arabian out first he tries to break the stall down and she can't get him to calm down, when she puts him in the field he turns towards her with his ears pinned to his skull and tries to bite her.... this lady has been dealing with all kinds of horses for years! Ever since she was like 10 and she's in her late 40's now.. i've never seen her be afraid of a horse.. even a horse I was afraid of she wasnt... I told her not to worry about it I would take care of him in the mornings even if I have to work early..


So yesterday I went to turn him out, and he drug me through the field on my knees... just because I didnt unclip him at the gate... and I didnt have the chain on his knows fyi... so I got ahold of him took him back to his stall and took my arabian outside... I was planning on leaving nash in because some of the other horses were in so I didnt think it would be a problem... he flipped he tried to climb over the door, the wall go through the wall... so I calmed him down got the lead rope, took him out he was good I opened the gate, and he stood there I unclipped him he stood there.. I said well you can go if you like, he took of and bucked and tried to kick me... now if he had just bucked while running I wouldnt have thought anything of that.. he bucked at my face... I fell backwards and just sat in the dirt.. I didnt get hurt but I was in shock.. my arabian came over and put his nose down and touched my knee like are you ok mom? I said im good louie and he helped me up.. he then went and pushed nash away from where he was standing close by to get him away from me...


Im in absoute awe... I have no clue what to do to get him back in control, i've been trying to get control of him for like a month now and he is just getting worse.. a trainer came out and he was perfect.. she thinks we are nuts...the chiro came out and he said there isnt anything wrong, farrier checked his feet they are fine, vet checked for something or anything that would make him mean, he found nothing... I just I don't know what to do... should I sell him to someone who could handle him? Do I try and work thru it...? what the heck do I do??
     
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    10-13-2010, 11:23 AM
  #2
Showing
You send him to a trainer who can handle him and get him properly started.

Your inexperience coupled with his apparent reactiveness and sensitivity are making things escalate to where either you, he, or both of you are going to get seriously hurt.

You don't know what you're doing with him, and you're making him worse. Either cough up the money and send him to a trainer, or get rid of him.

He deserves a chance at a good life, and unless you're willing to admit you're incapable of training him properly, you're going to mess him up to where he becomes rank and uncontrollable. Then the only people who are going to want him are the kill buyers, and it'll be your fault.
     
    10-13-2010, 11:54 AM
  #3
Showing
Please, consider the REAL trainer! Not the one, who came out once and says you are nuts (WHAT kind of trainer is that anyway?!). The one who comes out and WORKS with you and your horse through the issues and how to handle them. It sounds very dangerous, and you can be hurt next time he gets a hoof into you.
     
    10-13-2010, 12:17 PM
  #4
Yearling
I know you haven't meant to, but I think his aggression has been human caused. It is very common for people who can't control a horse with a halter, to work their way up more severe. They even make electric shock halters nowadays. As humans, we are predators and think differently than the prey animals, which includes horses.

A lot of times though, the more aggressive we get, tends to make the horse more aggressive back. In the horse world, the main game is 'pushed or be pushed' (Chris Irwin's words). If you haven't worked a horse in a while, it is common sense that he will test you again, just to see what he can get away with. But those problems can be fixed by redifing your dominance and it doesn't have to be by causing pain or fear, just gaining respect.

I think becuase of causing him pain, you have lost his trust, and also his respect for you. I don't know that when he does something wrong, you put him in his stall. Becuase, that means that it turn into punishment grounds. So everytime he goes in there, he thinks he is being punished, but if he doesn't know what he is being punished for, he become confused, and then irritated, and that can lead to aggression.

The rule of thumb is, if you can, punish a horse no later than 3 seconds after he does something. In the wild, when a horse steps out of line, the other horse immediatley lets him know by a pin of his ears, a little bite, or a kick. If you can't punish the horse in time, don't. He will associate it with the wrong thing.

I would suggest finding a horse trainer that knows some about natural horsemanship so he/she can resolve anger from the horse, then begin to gain respect and trust. Or, just sell him otherwise for safety purposes and find you a nice horse.
     
    10-13-2010, 01:39 PM
  #5
Foal
I'm beginning to think people on here don't read the actual post before commenting. You say you're not used to dealing with little guys, right? You've mostly been around taller horses? Have you done a lot of ground work with your little guy?

The only reason I'm asking is because lounging for respect might help you out some here. I disagree with the "trainer" you had come out. Any trainer worth their weight is going to watch you work with the horse, more than once, and work with the horse them self. I don't really agree with what other are saying about this being human caused. Not really. Using a chain doesn't make a horse mean or aggressive unless you're abusing them with it. From what you've said you're not.

Chains are used all the time on horses. Umm folks what do you think a lot of stallions and halter horses are led around with. Wake up it's not the tool it's how you use it.

So my advice is ground work, lounging for respect, and working with a better trainer who is willing to take the time to understand you're problem and help you out. Definitely try lounging in the field he seems to have a issue with respect when you're turning him out. If he acts out start lounging him right then at there. Make him work. Get control of his feet and some respect and you'll be able to solve a lot of his issues.
     
    10-13-2010, 02:14 PM
  #6
Started
Are you kidding racin? She obviously, admittedly, cannot handle this horse. What is so wrong about telling her to get him started by a professional?

On that note, I agree with the majority of the posters. You do not seem to be the right person for this horse. You need professional help. No one wants to see you taking a hoof to the head or him in the hands of a killer buyer. Get him help, get yourself help. Please.
     
    10-13-2010, 02:19 PM
  #7
Started
Quote:
Originally Posted by racinmyself    
I don't really agree with what other are saying about this being human caused. Not really. Using a chain doesn't make a horse mean or aggressive unless you're abusing them with it. From what you've said you're not.

Chains are used all the time on horses. Umm folks what do you think a lot of stallions and halter horses are led around with. Wake up it's not the tool it's how you use it.

So my advice is ground work, lounging for respect, and working with a better trainer who is willing to take the time to understand you're problem and help you out. Definitely try lounging in the field he seems to have a issue with respect when you're turning him out. If he acts out start lounging him right then at there. Make him work. Get control of his feet and some respect and you'll be able to solve a lot of his issues.
^I agree with much of this. Chains are like bits - they have a valid use, but can be easily mis-used. OP, it sounds like you're doing ok with the use of the chain, but running into the problems that come from relying on the chain for control rather than finding the root of the control problem. I would personally lose the chain in this situation, just because if the horse does really yank and drag on the halter and lead I don't want to risk the delicate bones of the face.

If you think he's out of control (which, I assume by your title that you do), find a trainer or someone who can help you control him. Being dragged on your knees when you try to turn your horse out is not acceptable, no matter what headgear you're using. If it doesn't get better with real pro help, you might want to consider selling him to someone who can deal with him.

In the meantime, I would do just as racinmyself suggested - get his feet moving on your terms, establish your personal space, and start enforcing and reinforcing a pattern of respectful behavior. If you don't like it, don't tolerate it, and channel that energy into something that you do like. This counts for every minute that you spend with the horse - not only formal "training time". If he charges past you, stop him (disengage his hindquarters if necessary), and back his bum up. This book might help you:http://www.amazon.com/Clinton-Andersons-Downunder-Horsemanship-Establishing/dp/1570762848 -- but please consider looking for a trainer who can help you on-site, who will observe you and your horse, and help both of you figure out how to handle this. A book can only help so much, and by the sound of it, you may need more than theoretic knowledge and exercise recipes.

Best of luck, and be safe.
     
    10-13-2010, 02:35 PM
  #8
Started
Maybe I didn't read thoroughly, but I didn't see anyone who responded harping about her using a chain? Only her dramatic, "which I know most of you just gasped at that", assumption that we would take offense to the use of the chain says anything negative about the chain being used.

I do agree that in the meantime the advice given by racin and Scout is good. However, more than anything you need professional help.
     
    10-13-2010, 02:44 PM
  #9
Showing
The definition of insanity is continuing to do the same thing and expecting different results.

The OP is not experienced or qualified enough to handle this horse and get him trained properly.

Y'all can spout off about reading books, watching DVDs, and mouth platitudes about 'natural horsemanship' until you're blue in the face, but the fact is you CAN'T learn how to train a horse using those methods without first being under the tutelage of a professional.

Most of the farked up horses I've seen going through auctions are because some starry-eyed noob thought all they needed to do was read up on those methods and use 'love' to train their animal.

Yeah, they 'loved' that horse so much it became rank and unmanageable, and more than likely wound up on someone's dinner plate.

One last thing; the word is LONGED or LUNGED, not lounged. Look up the definition of lounge, please. It doesn't mean what you think it does.
     
    10-13-2010, 02:55 PM
  #10
Yearling
The one thing that REALLY stuck out to me was the fact that when he was bad, you'd put him away or let him chill then start again. That's rewarding bad behavior. Please get a trainer before either of you get hurt!
     

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