help please with disrespectful horse
   

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help please with disrespectful horse

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  • Bought my new horse and disrespectful
  • Groundwork for a disrespectful horse

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    10-01-2012, 03:40 PM
  #1
Foal
help please with disrespectful horse

I am new to the horse world and I have a simi-green horse. He came straight from the trainer to me. He was a gift from my fatherinlaw so don't fuss at me lol Anyway we're having some disrespect issues. He HATES and I mean HATES to lunge! He will just throw a fit. I try to keep going and not let him win, but i'm afraid of getting hurt. He isn't mean, he just doesn't want to obey. I don't have a big round pen so I am forced to have him on a leadrope. There are a few other issues such as backing in the saddle, and moving while i'm trying to get on. As long as I keep on him both of those are pretty under control, but if he goes a few days I have to start all over! Will he always be like this?! HELP! Btw he's 8
Thanks!
     
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    10-01-2012, 03:47 PM
  #2
Green Broke
What are you seeking to accomplish using the lunging? Was the training he came to you from the ONLY training he has had in his 8 years or was that a re-training?
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    10-02-2012, 06:30 PM
  #3
Foal
I am doing it for respect/disapline. As far as I know he didn't have much training before if at all. He doesn't really know a lot.
     
    10-02-2012, 07:10 PM
  #4
Showing
Discipline comes from the word Disciple who is a follower and student of a mentor, teacher, or other figure. You are the teacher and you need to teach him how to lunge. Don't assume it's an automatic. Walk the circle with him gradually letting out more line. If he stops, your body may have to him to do so. When he will circle about 10 feet away, turn your belly button so it's facing well behind his shoulder. The middle of his shoulder is his drive line. Keep your focus on his ribs or hip and encourage him to walk by barely moving your whip toward his heels. Keep it near the ground to start but keep it to your side as long as he's walking. Don't keep the pressure on him or he'll get confused and shut down mentally. Be patient and stay out of kicking range. When he understands he'll be less inclined to kick out. The important thing with lunging is you are making his feet move, as happens in a herd. No rule says he has to be moving full of energy. With a TB it might be best to keep the energy out of it. As soon as he will make several circles at the walk, reward him by putting him away. Repeat this daily for 5 days so it becomes familiar to him. He will get better then work on his other side. His work to the left does not teach him how to do it to the right so you'll have to start him all over again, but by now he knows you will remain calm and will help him sort it out.
     
    10-02-2012, 11:58 PM
  #5
Foal
Thanks for the advice that makes sense. I will keep working with him and get a longer rope!
     
    10-03-2012, 12:21 AM
  #6
Super Moderator
The thing is, when some of those things are not right, such as not backing up under saddle, not holding still when mounting and not lunging without a lot of pushback, then the truth is that ALL isn't right. I mean, if the horse wont' back up from you, nor move forward from you (lunging) then he is pretty stuck all around. You may only see it in some parts of riding with him, but his stuckness is still there, underneath.

I think that you might want to have a good trainer come and work with you on the lunging and the backing. Getting those two going better will help everything else. Once he lunges honestly, then don't drill him to death with it, but if he won't go forward when you say, then there is a problem inside there. Do you want to ride that problem and pretend it isn't there?

Lastly, (should be firstly), be sure that there is no pain issue making lunging something he wants to avoid.
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    10-03-2012, 03:54 AM
  #7
Trained
Hi Luvmygelding. After reading your post, I get the idea you're a novice at horse training? So my response is in that vein. Please don't be offended if you're not - just the feeling I got from what you wrote.

Quote:
Originally Posted by luvmygelding    
Anyway we're having some disrespect issues.
What does respect/disrespect mean to you? Might seem a 'no brainer' but it is an ambiguous term. For eg. For many, it means unconditional obedience or subservience. To me, it starts with understanding & communication, respect and consideration FOR the horse, and obedience from the horse is just one of the things that comes out of it.

Quote:
He HATES and I mean HATES to lunge! He will just throw a fit. I try to keep going and not let him win,
I'd be working *towards* him feeling like he's 'winning', not against it! That's not to say you're left the loser - training should be a win/win type affair, not a confrontation. So one 'ingredient' of that is to make games easy enough for him to get Right more often than not, so you can build gradually on success.

Aside from 'respect' & whatever that means to you, what exactly are you wanting to teach him with lunging & how are you going about it? I find specific exercises are far easier for people & horses to succeed with if the human has clear & specific goals. Has he been taught to lunge previously? If not, how are you teaching him? If so, if he's green with little training, remember that horses don't generalise well, so just because he's been taught how to do it in one situation with one person, doesn't mean to say he actually does know how to do it anywhere for anyone.

There's also the question of whether you know how to lunge & how to teach him, whether you're being clear & consistent, whether you've gained his trust & he is confident of his safety with you, even when you get energetic.

Quote:
he just doesn't want to obey. ... As long as I keep on him both of those are pretty under control, but if he goes a few days I have to start all over! Will he always be like this?!
Re 'generalising' lessons, it will take repetition in different situations, practicing & being reinforced for *right* behaviour, for him to really learn what is expected of him.

If a person is too confrontational &/or mainly focussed on 'correcting' what's wrong rather than *encouraging* what's 'right', then horses can often still be 'browbeaten' into it. But they'll do it with resistance & It's also hard to teach refined specifics if you're just trying to force it & the horse has no interest in trying to learn more, or isn't taught 'right' behaviour. If you do it with a focus on positively reinforcing(rewarding) the behaviours you want, working gradually forward from a strong foundation - not expecting high school responses from a kindergarten student, he should not only learn more quickly, but develop a *desire* to do as you ask, so you won't have to keep nagging him about stuff.

I would suggest you find a good, considerate trainer to work with you & show you how to 'work' him. It's also one thing to learn how to work with horses on a seasoned, well trained 'schoolmaster' & quite another thing to try to learn when the horse is a beginner too.
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    10-03-2012, 08:00 AM
  #8
Green Broke
Okay - we now know more about his level of training and knowledge, what about your's? I know you say you are "new" to the horse world, how much actual experience do you have? How much experience do you have in lunging a horse? It isn't as simple as most think and can easily be done in a way that creates exactly the type of situation you are experiencing. It may not even be about the horse not wanting to lunge, but the horse not understanding what is being asked of him or the person asking in a way that is actually counter to the desired action.
Green on green (horse and rider) is tpically not a good combination without plenty of direct, hands-on assistance from a more seasoned individual who can guide both horse AND handler through all that must be learned.
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    10-03-2012, 09:09 AM
  #9
Showing
As your ground work proceeds, stand by his shoulder so your navel faces his shoulder. Using your pinky (left hand) on the halter near the cheek strap ask him to bring his nose around. I say pinky because it's not to turn into a pulling match. Very light. He learns by how quickly you release. Begin bringing his nose toward your hip. You may get only an few inches and he resists. That's ok. But when he resists don't let go of the halter, allow your hand to follow his nose. Then ask again in small tugs. Give him at least 3 times to get the hang of this. When, even if he comes part way and you can't feel him resist, immediately let go and push his head straight. He will get so he will easily come and almost touch your hip. Then the other side. Horses are often more resistant on the off side. When he is doing this well, bridle him with a snaffle bit and repeat the exercise using your pinky on the bit. This teaches him to give and be soft with the bit. Don't ride him until you've done this exercise two or three times a day for a few days. Don't rush it. I recommend doing this exercies each time before you ride "pre-flight check". Because he's now willing to bend, bring his head around when you mount and hold it bent until he stops walking, which will be in a circly whereby his hind end walk farther than his front (tiring as he's not really designed to walk that way). When he's willing to stand still, get adjusted. Check you watch and make him stand for two minutes. If he starts moving, bend his head around again. Same as the groundwork, release and let him relax when he does as requested. If he was a race horse at any time he was always told to move forward. Even when the jockeys are given a leg-up the horse is moving. So you may really need to spend a lot of time with this.
     
    10-03-2012, 02:57 PM
  #10
Foal
Yes I agree green on green isn't a good idea. He was a gift and we are kinda working it out together. I have had more experienced people work with him and he gives them trouble too so I don't think it's JUST me, although i'm sure it's partly me. He's just very head strong. He's a cobb paint.
     

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