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Help, What Am I Doing Wrong?!

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        11-17-2012, 12:56 PM
      #11
    Weanling
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by PunksTank    
    Sounds like you need an instructor who can actually help you - one who just backs off because your angry isn't helping anything. It also sounds like you know exactly what you should do to help him calm down but chose something else? When exposing a horse who's only ever done small figures- to big figures, he'll need time to realize he doesn't need to race through it.

    As for the bit! YES if there are cracks on his mouth his bit is seriously not right for him! What mouth piece is in his mouth? Full cheek and D ring are only slightly different, but the part that's in his mouth is what really effects him. Does it have a single joint? The single joint could be hitting his pallet if he has a low pallet. Was the previous one double jointed?
    Honestly, if a horse is acting up- using a harsher bit is the worst option IMO. It just hurts them more.
    If a horse won't respond to the bit your using he needs to be better trained, the only time to change bits is if they're not comfortable in a bit or if they're learning a new skill that would benefit from a more clear bit - not because they stopped listening to the first.
    Give him his comfortable bit back -Go back to the basics, walk trot, don't even canter, work on small relaxed figures, gradually, slowly making them larger, adding short straight lines. Whenever he starts to get worked up go a little smaller on your figures.
    The next crucial thing for you to remember - the more worked up you are the more worked up your horse is. The angrier you are the angrier he's getting. He's saying "dammit MOM Can't you see ____ is wrong?!" and you're saying "dammit horse can't you see you need to do ____?!" But neither of you are listening. So take a deep breath, relax - do it for your horses sake. Soften your body - focus on happy thoughts, remember you're riding your horse and this is awesome! Not many people get to have a horse of their own they can ride all the time, you are lucky and this is fantastic and fun! Enjoy it! Horses are supposed to be enjoyable. Everytime you think of something negative fight it.
    "I'm so happy I can ride my pony, he's doing a good relaxed walk" if your thought turns to "but he wont___" Quickly change that though to "but he is ____ ___ and ____"

    So fix your bit, relax the horse, relax yourself and take time to enjoy your horse!!
    Thank you very much, I don't know exactly what bit he was used to before I got him but I'm trying different ones to see which one works best for him. I can try to describe the bit he has. It is a d ring and instead of two pieces there are three, one on the, left, and then a wide oval in the middle that I think can spin and it has two holes punched on either side of the middle piece. I'm not sure if that helps but....
         
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        11-17-2012, 01:07 PM
      #12
    Weanling
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by finn113    
    Thank you very much, I don't know exactly what bit he was used to before I got him but I'm trying different ones to see which one works best for him. I can try to describe the bit he has. It is a d ring and instead of two pieces there are three, one on the, left, and then a wide oval in the middle that I think can spin and it has two holes punched on either side of the middle piece. I'm not sure if that helps but....
    Here is a pic of what my new bit looks like
    Attached Images
    File Type: jpg image.jpg (7.6 KB, 111 views)
         
        11-17-2012, 01:08 PM
      #13
    Started
    That does help, that's a good bit. But the rolling part of it could be pinching. Can you find a bit like this?


    Sorry that's huge

    That's a french link, full cheek. Full cheeks are great because they hold the bit in the correct position in the horse's mouth, if you use keepers on them. They also provide a lot of lateral pressure. So when you pull the right rein, it pushes down on the right bar, and pulls the bit slightly through his mouth pushing his left side of his face over. D rings do this too, but not as strongly IMO.

    It could also be pinching him where the mouth piece meets the rings, on the corners of his lips (where you say there are cracks). So maybe a D ring would work, but find one without anything pinchy on his cheeks.

    When was his last visit to the dentist? Do you know for sure or are you going based on what a previous owner said? I think a dentist may be in order too.


    As for the saddle. Just because it fit him once doesn't mean it fits him now - it won't hurt to check. And check his back too.

    IME most horses don't gallop blindly off all hot and bothered just because they can, somethings bothering them. It may not be the tack, it could be you (not to be mean) but maybe he's picking up that you're in a mood and getting more bothered by it. Maybe you're body is more tense, which is no good. Maybe you get too heavy with your hands when he gets more forward? Rather than just pulling on his mouth or see-sawing the reins, just do some small figures to calm him down.

    This is going to take a lot of investigation and narrowing things down to find exactly what it is that's bothering him, but the bit, the saddle and your own seat and hands are the variable here. I wouldn't lunge him before riding, that'll only get him hotter. If you want to work him before getting on him try long lining him, at a nice easy walk.
    HorseCrazyTeen likes this.
         
        11-17-2012, 01:16 PM
      #14
    Weanling
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by PunksTank    
    That does help, that's a good bit. But the rolling part of it could be pinching. Can you find a bit like this?


    Sorry that's huge

    That's a french link, full cheek. Full cheeks are great because they hold the bit in the correct position in the horse's mouth, if you use keepers on them. They also provide a lot of lateral pressure. So when you pull the right rein, it pushes down on the right bar, and pulls the bit slightly through his mouth pushing his left side of his face over. D rings do this too, but not as strongly IMO.

    It could also be pinching him where the mouth piece meets the rings, on the corners of his lips (where you say there are cracks). So maybe a D ring would work, but find one without anything pinchy on his cheeks.

    When was his last visit to the dentist? Do you know for sure or are you going based on what a previous owner said? I think a dentist may be in order too.


    As for the saddle. Just because it fit him once doesn't mean it fits him now - it won't hurt to check. And check his back too.

    IME most horses don't gallop blindly off all hot and bothered just because they can, somethings bothering them. It may not be the tack, it could be you (not to be mean) but maybe he's picking up that you're in a mood and getting more bothered by it. Maybe you're body is more tense, which is no good. Maybe you get too heavy with your hands when he gets more forward? Rather than just pulling on his mouth or see-sawing the reins, just do some small figures to calm him down.

    This is going to take a lot of investigation and narrowing things down to find exactly what it is that's bothering him, but the bit, the saddle and your own seat and hands are the variable here. I wouldn't lunge him before riding, that'll only get him hotter. If you want to work him before getting on him try long lining him, at a nice easy walk.
    Ok, I just attached a pic of what the bit looks like. So maybe that will help. I just signed him up to have his teeth checked so that will happen soon. There is a vet at ,y barn but I doubt she could examine his back, a chiropractor check is going to be hard because my parent adopt understand horses and my mom would most likely not agree to it, and I don't think we have one anywhere near by, the best I could is have my vet try but idk
         
        11-17-2012, 01:23 PM
      #15
    Started
    I just saw the picture of your bit, is the exactly what it looks like? Where the mouth piece connects to the bit is it that tall? My only other thought is the bit could be too narrow. If his mouth is cracked the bit is pinching. This happens because either an ill-fitted bit, a pinchy bit, or too strong hands.
    I think a dentist is definitely in order, any vet should be able to say whether or not he has back pain, though they aren't specialized in chiropractic work. If he's still bad after getting his teeth floated I would have his back checked by your vet. If they say he's in pain and he needs a chiropractor I'm sure you could have the vet explain it to your parents, assuming it's affordable. But I would check his mouth first.

    If that is exactly the bit your using, that's a nice bit, most horses are comfy in it, so long as it fits.
    So work on your own relaxation skills, keeping your hands soft and your body gentle. Move with the horse, if he gets too worked up - small figures, deep breathes, slow it down. :)
         
        11-17-2012, 01:29 PM
      #16
    Weanling
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by PunksTank    
    I just saw the picture of your bit, is the exactly what it looks like? Where the mouth piece connects to the bit is it that tall? My only other thought is the bit could be too narrow. If his mouth is cracked the bit is pinching. This happens because either an ill-fitted bit, a pinchy bit, or too strong hands.
    I think a dentist is definitely in order, any vet should be able to say whether or not he has back pain, though they aren't specialized in chiropractic work. If he's still bad after getting his teeth floated I would have his back checked by your vet. If they say he's in pain and he needs a chiropractor I'm sure you could have the vet explain it to your parents, assuming it's affordable. But I would check his mouth first.

    If that is exactly the bit your using, that's a nice bit, most horses are comfy in it, so long as it fits.
    So work on your own relaxation skills, keeping your hands soft and your body gentle. Move with the horse, if he gets too worked up - small figures, deep breathes, slow it down. :)
    No that it the bit I have changed my old one too. I don't know what bit I was currently using, but the picture is pretty similar to the one I have now. The picture is my NEW bit, not my old one.
         
        11-17-2012, 01:32 PM
      #17
    Started
    Just to be sure you're not using a bit like this?


    This is a Dr. Bristol, see how the middle piece is flat? It pushes a great deal of pressure onto the tongue - this could be seriously bothersome. Just making sure, I see too many people thinking Dr. Bristols are kind.



    ETA: I just saw your newest post. The new bit is a good bit, it shouldn't be causing him pain, assuming it fits correctly. It sounds to me like the bit is too narrow. If his mouth has cracks it's because the bit is too narrow, too wide, pinching, or too strong hands holding it.
    If his mouth is cracked the bit is pinching. This happens because either an ill-fitted bit, a pinchy bit, or too strong hands.
    HorseCrazyTeen likes this.
         
        11-17-2012, 01:36 PM
      #18
    Trained
    Agreed about checking the tack for fit, but the "green 8yo" says a lot. My gut tells me that he has holes in his training. I would spend the winter checking out EVERYTHING in this horse's training. On the ground you can watch his reaction to every command, and see where you need to work. Work him without and with your saddle. If you can, film it and watch the two of you working together. You are building a partnership, and you might not see where you both are working against each other without watching the training sessions.
    Lists are VERY HELPFUL. List your objectives and knock them off when you achieve them. NOTHING is more satisfying than success!!
    I used to buy/train a lot of broken horses and retrain them to several different disciplines. BC they worked about 7-10 lessons/week, the repetition (and my student's hugs and carrots, =b ) fixed many problems. Now, I have a much younger herd and no lesson program. I find that my younger horses learn very quickly. Both 6yo geldings were started as 2yo's, and ground training progresses quickly with them, too.
    My 6yo QH is very stiff on the left side. I started flexing him, and his gives easily on the right, and even offers to keep his neck flexed. On the left it is much more difficult for him, but he has a good attitude. So...I am creative. I ask for less on the left, and praise him greatly, so he tries, even though there is probably some pain and stiffness there. I know with me, I can stretch to the right more easily to the left when I straddle the floor to stretch out, so I can be sympethetic.
    Good luck!
    PunksTank and Mochachino like this.
         
        11-17-2012, 01:38 PM
      #19
    Weanling
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by PunksTank    
    I just saw the picture of your bit, is the exactly what it looks like? Where the mouth piece connects to the bit is it that tall? My only other thought is the bit could be too narrow. If his mouth is cracked the bit is pinching. This happens because either an ill-fitted bit, a pinchy bit, or too strong hands.
    I think a dentist is definitely in order, any vet should be able to say whether or not he has back pain, though they aren't specialized in chiropractic work. If he's still bad after getting his teeth floated I would have his back checked by your vet. If they say he's in pain and he needs a chiropractor I'm sure you could have the vet explain it to your parents, assuming it's affordable. But I would check his mouth first.

    If that is exactly the bit your using, that's a nice bit, most horses are comfy in it, so long as it fits.
    So work on your own relaxation skills, keeping your hands soft and your body gentle. Move with the horse, if he gets too worked up - small figures, deep breathes, slow it down. :)
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by PunksTank    
    Just to be sure you're not using a bit like this?


    This is a Dr. Bristol, see how the middle piece is flat? It pushes a great deal of pressure onto the tongue - this could be seriously bothersome. Just making sure, I see too many people thinking Dr. Bristols are kind.



    ETA: I just saw your newest post. The new bit is a good bit, it shouldn't be causing him pain, assuming it fits correctly. It sounds to me like the bit is too narrow. If his mouth has cracks it's because the bit is too narrow, too wide, pinching, or too strong hands holding it.
    If his mouth is cracked the bit is pinching. This happens because either an ill-fitted bit, a pinchy bit, or too strong hands.
    Actually that very well could be it I don't have it with me but that might be it. And the one that is giving him cracks was his first bit hopefully not his new, though I have not ridden in his new one yet.
         
        11-17-2012, 01:38 PM
      #20
    Started
    Corporal all great suggestions!! Completely agree - I missed the 8 year old part o.o I thought my mare, when I got her, was the only unbroke 8 year old in the world xD
    Corporal likes this.
         

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