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Helping a horse become kid friendly.

3K views 16 replies 13 participants last post by  smrobs 
#1 ·
So it's been awhile since I've posted here, but recently I've had a problem that I could do with some advice on.

I can't go into reasons online, but recently a 4y.o girl has been coming with me to visit my horses every time I go down to look after them as she now lives with my family. My gelding is absolutely smitten with her and doesn't care if she gets so excited, runs across the paddock towards him and hugs his legs, as he's usually waiting for her to come to him happily.

I'm huge on safety for both horses and other people, but I'm also one to believe that if there is something that one of my horses are frightened of, then they have to learn its alright, without being forced. Usually my method of reintroducing whatever it is that frightens them and making it a situation where they don't necessarily have it right in front of them, but its a constant, works. However, this doesn't seem to be working well, and I'm at a loss of if its simply more time or not.

My mare, who I've had from 3yrs is not coping with the child completely. Whilst the young girl knows the rules (first thing I taught her was not to surprise a horse or go behind them and 95% of the time she gets this without me reminding her), she's like most kids, lively and in love with horses, so she gets very excited. And whilst my mare normally has a heart of gold, she's reacting out at times. In the beginning, she was showing the young child that she best stay away from her... she wasn't nasty, but she showed me many signs of being uncomfortable because she'd never seen a child before, and didn't know what to do with her. This was extremely apparent when the girl picked up a grooming brush and tried to brush my mare, who pinned her ears back and was having none of that.

The child is never left without supervision, although I do have a dodgy leg, so there has been two incidents where she's run off suddenly and I'm left screaming at her to come back. Thankfully Honey listens to me and knows I'd never purposely put her in harms way, but she just can't accept the child. I thought I had taken away the complete dislike by putting the girl up on Honey's back. They bonded in that space, Honey was over the moon that someone was on her back and stood stock still, looking after her pint size rider whilst I snapped a photo of it. She seemed happy to have the child around her again, but after I had ridden her, and my mare was satisfied that she'd been ridden (first time in months), it went back to Honey disliking the child.

I see it as Honey's extremely jealous. Evo has no problems with the little girl, and in fact he has become more of a pleasure to handle, because he's forever watching himself around her. But Honey seems to always be scowling whenever the child is around, especially near me. I know she'd never hurt the wee girl, but she has threatened once (the child didn't listen to me and tried to go near her and Honey lifted her leg, but I pulled the child who wasn't even near her, back) and I have to wonder if she's jealous and angry, because whenever its just me and her, shes thrilled to see me, snuggles in and follows me around. When the child is there, she tries to get me alone, or avoids me.

My main question is, how do I approach this? The child pretty much comes every time and telling her she cannot come to the ponies is like WW3, we're working on this with her lol. I don't have experienced children skills. However, I do think that they could eventually become comfortable around each other, I just need to know if I'm going the right way with still trying, and making sure the child understands that Honey doesn't like her very much so to give her a wide berth, unless I'm right beside her. I'm one for safety but I don't want to make a big dilemma out of it, giving Honey more to think about.

Any tips?
Thanks in advance.
 
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#2 ·
It sounds like you are doing a lot to educated the child, keep at it, repetition repetition repetition.....

As for the horse, act like a goof around her.... wave your arms all around, speak in a high pitched voice, be floppy, basically act like a four year old..... be silly and goofy and do everything you can to desensitize your horse to the childs behavior.
 
#3 ·
Some horses just don't like kids. Some horses don't like men. And some don't like women. I've seen all 3 "don't likes" although it's not very common of course.

Try to associate kid with something pleasant for her: feed, treats, petting, etc.
 
#4 ·
Welcome back Schelle.

First I have to say that I was very uncomfortable reading your post. From the sound of it (and I can only go by the words) you are putting too much faith in your horses, especially Honey.

A child's horse, IMO, is born not made. You can make a horse more tolerant but never safe. I would keep that in mind when the child is around the horses. A horse that pins her ears - for any reason - around a person, is not to be trusted. Saying I know she'd never hurt the wee girl is very naive and that is how terrible accidents happen. I would avoid having the child around your horse unless you had a firm grip on her hand.

The very last thing you will ever want to hear is "She's never done that before!!!"

 
#5 ·
Sounds like the little girl is smart and loving. Don't underestimate the power of comprehension of a child. I think it's safe to have a 1 on 1 talk with her.

Explain her gently that Honey gets upset easily and would be happier if left alone.
Make sure you mention it's not the little girl's fault, don't turn this in a guilt problem. It's just how Honey is.
Honey needs some time on herself. To further explain why she should not touch the mare, tell her some little white lie such as:

"Honey is very ticklish. She tickles all over and she can't help it. When you're in the saddle, she does not get tickles so bad."

Eventually tickle the little girl too, for some giggles. She will probably swing her arms and legs and you can explain her that's what Honey might....do...if ..ya know.

I would be very wary of allowing a child around a horse that is clearly uncomfortable with her presence. Maybe Honey would only want to send her away and give her a warning. But horse warnings are generally kicks and bites, after pinned ears and lifted leg. Any warning of this kind could be fatal for an adult human, and even more for such a small child
 
#6 ·
Forgot to add: some animals simply dislike children. That does not make them vicious or bad.
My dog dislikes children but tolerates them well, however he will do everything possible to avoid them and go hide somewhere until the toddlers are gone. If he is found, he will just stay there stoically sighing loud, that is the only disapproval sign you'll ever get from him.

A horse cannot exactly hide anywhere. His choice will be to leave or push away and a horse pushing away can do a whole more damage than a dog.


My choice was simply to ask the children to leave Ayax alone. I lied to them, saying he is sick and grumpy (he is neither of those). I know he tolerates them well, but I see no reason in forcing him to do that and the children usually have squirrel attention span so they switch off their interest to something else in under 2 minutes.
 
#7 ·
Thank you everyone for your replies, I expected a lot of comments on the negative side of things when I posted this.

I for one do not wish to force anything on Honey, and definitely am not naive about her capabilities. If I did not care for the way my horse is reacting I would not take the time to come here to ask for advice. However I thank you all for the advice.

I am in agreement on many things, and I've already given the little girl several talks on that Honey is not used to kids and doesn't mean to seem grumpy but its a lot for her to take on. The child has accepted this, and is more than happy to spend her time with Evo. Anytime in which she seems to want to get close to Honey, she is in close supervision now, ie right beside me holding my hand, or on the other side of the fence and I'm next to Honey.

This wasn't posted to make sure the little girl could get a happy ever after story, but to help my horse if I could, to be a little more accepting. I should have mentioned that because I've done everything with her, she's not very accepting of many people, she's very exclusive... so this is something I work on by putting her in the position where she has to think ... I agree, having a child in that position is potentially dangerous, hence why I haven't really "put" her there.

Thank you everyone for you advice, I'll definitely be taking it all -good and bad- on as food for thought!!
 
#14 ·
As was said - some critters simply do not like children. Usually boils down to the predator reaction. Children and dogs cause the most common 'dislike' or fear response.
This hits the nail on the head.

A small child, to a horse, is much like a dog or wolf. They have the same "feel" to the horse when they enter the horse's space. It's not really about the sudden movements, or the sudden loud noises - it's actually about the energy children carry with them everywhere.

Some horses can cope and don't mind that at all/seem to enjoy - others can cope but don't enjoy it - and others still can't cope.

I'm with whoever it was that said a Children's horse is born, not made. I have yet to meet a horse who is uncomfortable with children who was made "child safe". I've seen them (and helped them) to cope so that they aren't defensive around children, but, never altered a horse's perception of a child.

By 4 years of age a child should be able to understand a couple simple rules about the barn/horses. Make sure you enforce the consequences for breaking those rules, ALWAYS.

I generally don't allow small children to be "alone" near the horses at all, even my "child friendly" horses. Children (especially very young ones) "forget" themselves sometimes - and horses can forget themselves too. They must be within arms reach of me at all times until they are at least 5 or 6 years old (around that age they can be taught how to handle an appropriately sized/trained horse).
 
#9 ·
I agree with everyone else's suggestions, especially that a children's horse is born and not made. I have something else to add also, being that the girl is so small/young I would suggest carrying her when she is around Honey. It may cause Honey to be more accepting of the child and it may not, but it WILL make the situation safer for the child. Kids can move very quickly and I know from personal experience how quickly they can get into a relatively dangerous position around a horse. Thankfully I'm very lucky and all of my horses (living and passed) always adored children. Good luck!
 
#10 ·
As well as owning a horse I own a Rottweiler - a breed of dog who inherits an image. My dog is as soft as butter but he weighs 45 kilos. From time to time kids come up and say 'hello' - and I am torn. The dog is prepared to say 'hello'
and I know he will not bite but he weighs 45 kilos - more than most kids.
So I stand between dog and child - knowing full well that if anythng goes wrong it will be taken to have been the dog's fault. Then immediately the dog and child have said, out of touching dstance, a very brief 'hello', I put my dog away into safety.

My horse weighs 525 kilos and she is as soft as butter and I know she will not bite but she weighs 525 kilos. From time to time kids come up and say hello - and I am torn. The mare is prepared to say hello and I know she wll not bite, kick or barge but she weighs 525b klos - the weight of a small car and at least 5 tmes the weight of most kids.
So I stand between horse and child - knowing full well that if anything goes wrong it will be taken to have been the horse's fault or my fault for letting things go wrong. It will never be the child's fault.
Then immediately the horse and child have said a brief, repeat brief, hello, I put my horse away into safety. I am very aware that in one horse's foot
there is 525/4 = 131 kilos (almost 290 lbs) of weight, projected by a steel shod foot.

The risk you run are significant and if, Lord Forbid, there ever is an accident - you will be judged not by your peers but other humans who may not have the understandng of horses which you have. For your horse's sake, and of course for the safety of the child, don't take chances.

You'll get little thanks for what you are trying to do - but you'll get full blame if it all goes wrong. Do be cautious.
 
#11 ·
I totally agree with Barry. I have a 3 yr old niece, and a 9 yr old niece. I have had a few heartstoppers when the 3 yr old bolted and ran right for the horses. Thank Epona that they are all calm and gentle and did not react badly. I have to suggest kneeling down to this little girls level and talking to her. A 4 yr old should have the ability to follow rules. Explain to her-

"You are going to see my ponies. I have rules about the ponies. The rules are that you must hold my hand when we go see the ponies. You cannot run away from me. You have to listen to what I say about the ponies. If you cannot follow the rules, you will have to sit outside the fence on a time out while I brush the ponies. Do you understand?"

Have 2-3 simple rules, and a consequence. Make her repeat the rules back to you.

I would suggest putting your mare up in her stall or in another pasture while the little one is with you. Do not put your horse in a situation she is uncomfortable in. You can acclimate the child to the horse over the stall door or through the fence. I would suggest having the child offer the horse a tasty treat such as a baby carrot or apple slice each time she sees her. Child can put treat in a bucket and offer it to her. This way your mare will see the little girl as a pleasurable thing. She may not ever be a kids horse, but you can at least make sure that she is tolerable.
 
#12 ·
"You are going to see my ponies. I have rules about the ponies. The rules are that you must hold my hand when we go see the ponies. You cannot run away from me. You have to listen to what I say about the ponies. If you cannot follow the rules, you will have to sit outside the fence on a time out while I brush the ponies. Do you understand?"

Have 2-3 simple rules, and a consequence. Make her repeat the rules back to you.
This is almost the exact conversation I had with my niece and other kids that come out. Ash broke the rules 1-2x at first, but then her little butt was sitting in the barn waiting for me to get done.
 
#13 ·
Some horses hate children. My pony was one of them - pinned her ears, made faces, would leave the area if loose. I made the decision to not force her to 'like' them. She had to tolerate them, but I would make sure kids weren't in her bubble. If they were there she had to be polite about it but didn't have to enjoy it.

She's the only horse or pony I've ever met who hated children. My thoroughbred loooooves them and is a different animal around them.

My advice would be, don't force Honey into 'liking' kids - she'll just end up more resentful.
 
#15 ·
Thank you everyone for the food for thought. Whilst I'm not trying to make my horse child safe I've only been working towards her being tolerable, I can see that this will be a slow and steady game with the rules I've enforced and some of the new, safer ideas I have gain from this thread. Thank you all for your advice it has been much appreciated and eye opening. It's funny you bring up dogs, honey is curious of my dog butalso doesn't do more than tolerate her. I'll take that as a sign from what I've read here.
Thanks again everyone!
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#16 ·
I'm not going to tell you what's already been told, but rather tell you how it works on my property.
One - no way, no how are you going to visit the horses if you are being loud, exuberant, saucy or irregardless to rules.
Two - I always HOLD the children. I know that should a situation happen, I can either rush the child out of there or (most of the time with my boys) diffuse the situation with one hand.
Now, I have one gelding who is so dead, dog quiet even the most challenging of kids could handle him with ease. I trust him 100%. But I never let children just hang off of him or treat him in a less then desirable way because who is to say that that child will not see another horse in a different setting and treat him the same, with far worse consequences?
My other gelding despises children - as shown by the day one of my father's coworkers let his children out of his truck. My gelding put his head down and chased that child clear out of his paddock. Had the child fallen, he probably would have run him over.
BUT that horse absolutely adores me. When I approach him with a child in my arms, he is absolutely thrilled to see me and puts up with the child petting him. I make the situation comfortable for him by my presence being there to make him feel that things are alright. He fears children on their own, but they are smaller then he is so he will undoubtedly chase or hurt them. Because he trusts me so much, he is willing to overlook it and say "well mum says its okay."
Perhaps you could try something like that with Honey?
 
#17 ·
I just want to share a couple of little stories. My old horse Buck was a monster of a horse, standing around 16 hands and weighing around 1400. When my brother was young, maybe 6 or 7, he was leading Buck back to his stall at the show ground. As they were walking, an electric cord brushed Buck's rump and caused him to pop his head up. My brother had a tight enough grip on the lead close enough to Buck's head that he was pulled off his feet. He sprawled out on the ground in front of the still-walking horse. Buck took a step and ended up with his foot on the side of Jason's knee. He didn't move another muscle or try to take another step, he simply dropped his nose down to my Brother and stood there with his foot barely resting on my Brother's knee. He stayed exactly in that position for several seconds until my Dad could get there and show Buck where it was safe to move his foot to avoid the rest of the arms and legs that were underneath him. Even after all that, the only mark to be seen was a hoofprint of dust on my Brother's jeans.

We had a team of Belgian Mules named Buster and Tiny. Both of them were over 17 hands and weighed more than 1500 (though Buster was quite a bit bigger). When they were about 5 years old, we had them at a Mule show. Dad was leading them down the isle of the barn to their stalls when Buster froze and refused to move. When Dad turned to see what the deal was, he heard a squeal and giggle from directly behind the mules. Apparently, (according to other witnesses) a young girl of 3 or 4 had wandered away from her parents and when she saw the mules, she hit a run towards their walking hind feet. She never even slowed down as she hit Buster's back legs and wrapped her arms around them. He never reacted other than to freeze every muscle, lift his head, and cock his ears back.

These are the type of reactions that absolutely cannot be taught, they must be ingrained in a horse's being so deeply that they are simply unable to react badly to a child. The horse from the first story, Buck? If that had been an adult, he would have run them over and sneered as he trampled them and kept going. His lot in life was a kid horse and that was what he was best at. For a kid, he would kill himself doing what they wanted to do so long as they were safe but an adult would be hard pressed to successfully ride him without a big fight.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that some horses don't like children and never will. Regardless of what kind of training or desensitizing Honey gets, she may never be comfortable or safe around kids. Probably your best bet would be to continue on with the way you are doing things now, keep the girl away unless you are right there to protect her.
 
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