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Herd Sour Gelding UGH!!

This is a discussion on Herd Sour Gelding UGH!! within the Horse Training forums, part of the Training Horses category

     
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        12-07-2008, 06:16 PM
      #11
    Weanling
    Sorry for the double post but I just thought of another example. When I went to bring my horse home that first time, he wouldn't get on the float. He would walk up the ramp, put one foot in the float and then go backwards, and each time I would take him away do a circle and approach again, but it got me nowhere. Eventually his old owner spoke up (she and her partner were trainers, and they use NH) and she said each time I took him away from the float I was giving him what he wants and making the behaviour stronger. I was told to just keep his head straight, pointing towards the float, he could go backwards, forwards or sideways, but he was always facing the float, and after a few minutes he walked on.
         
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        12-07-2008, 06:18 PM
      #12
    Banned
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by RedHawk    
    Sonny, I wasn't saying that you should force your horse to do something, I know that doesn't work, esp with my horse, lol.
    But if he trusts you as his leader, i'll use the tarp example, and you take him away from something scary as soon as he shows fear, aren't you reinforcing his fear by telling him, in his mind, that it IS something to be afraid of since you are "running away"?
    I don't think you should make him go up to it (still using tarp e.g. Lol), but if he shows fear, stop. You don't have to make him walk up to it but don't let him run away, let him get a good look, and blow and snort if he feels this is necessary, lol, and when he is ready bring him a little closer, only as much as he is comfortable with, and praise him with confident voice. Then take him away and give him a break and let him take his mind off it.
    Being his leader you need to show him that it is not anything to be afraid of.

    Then again Sonny, you said it worked with your boy, so im not discrediting your method. I'd say its just a matter of finding which method works for the horse depending on his personality.
    Whether a horse trusts you or not, if they are truely nervous about something, to heck with their owner! Their prey intuitions come into play and at times they will literally tune out the rider and go crazy.
    If your horse is getting nervous about something even though you are saying it's perfectly alright, he's tuning you out and focusing more on their prey side of their brain.
    You are doing pressure and release also. You are putting pressure on and telling the horse "go as far as you can", then when they go as far as they can, you reward by turning back and giving them a second or so to get their mind back...then ask to approach again.
         
        12-07-2008, 06:20 PM
      #13
    Trained
    Sonny, I didn't mean it'd take a year or anything. I just meant you wont be able to bring him out and go straight on the trail as you would when you bring him out, bring him back, bring him out, bring him back.
         
        12-07-2008, 06:21 PM
      #14
    Banned
    It depends on your horses personality. If you have a purely dominant horse, yes moving him away is rewarding him...but if your horse has any nervous tendencies (which normally happens with new things), it's best to let them go as far as you can then re-approach until they are confident

    My horse has nervous tendencies with new things and gets all blundered if I'm asking him to do something and he isn't sure and he gets almost crazed.
         
        12-07-2008, 06:22 PM
      #15
    Banned
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by RusticWildFire    
    Sonny, I didn't mean it'd take a year or anything. I just meant you wont be able to bring him out and go straight on the trail as you would when you bring him out, bring him back, bring him out, bring him back.
    No I knew you didn't mean that, just wanted to give an approx time on that it might work
         
        12-07-2008, 06:23 PM
      #16
    Trained
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SonnyWimps    
    Whether a horse trusts you or not, if they are truely nervous about something, to heck with their owner! Their prey intuitions come into play and at times they will literally tune out the rider and go crazy.
    If your horse is getting nervous about something even though you are saying it's perfectly alright, he's tuning you out and focusing more on their prey side of their brain.

    That's not necessarily true. I've seen plenty of horses that are truly terrified of something go through with it because the horse and rider had a strong bond and the horse looked to the rider for guidance to get them through.
         
        12-07-2008, 06:30 PM
      #17
    Banned
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by rosie9r    
    Ok folks, so I know there have been a ton of posts about barn sour/herd sour horses...but here's one more. I have a 9 yr old gelding (pasture kept and is herd leader). He will only work with the confines of the ranch, in the arena or the round pen. If I try to move him towards the start of a trail he refuses. I have tried walking him to the trail and doing circles after a refusal, carrying a crop and reminding him what its for after a refusal, leading him to the trailhead before mounting...its getting very frustrating. He will go out on the trails if we are with another rider with little to no problem.

    I am pretty sure it is just herdsourness (he's the same horse that hasn't been worked consistently in a couple years and won't lunge either)but it is getting so frustrating!

    Should I just be starting with the basics and see how that goes? He has a lot of ground problems as well, wont take the bit without sticking your fingers in his mouth, wont stand next to a mounting block to be mounted...The mounting block and the bit we are working on almost daily, but the refusing to leave the ranch when its just him and me is getting old really fast.

    What do you think?
    You might want to try ponying him. He will be with one other horse but not the whole herd.
         
        12-15-2008, 10:54 PM
      #18
    Weanling
    Sorry I have been absent (they are checking out internet usage at work now, during my prime horseforum time of course!). So a new update on my Morgan's behavior... he is now refusing to leave the pasture. His "herd" just increased in size, a mini and 2 goats, along with his usual 2 mares, so I don't know if that is causing some of the problems. But the past week I have had to carry a crop into the pasture just to get him to leave. I am super concerned with this behavior because of the fires we have here. If we have a fire and I have to evacuate him, the way its going I wont be able to get him out of the pasture. On a side note, this weekend I took him out on our normal trail ride with the other stable boarders and he not only tried to bite me getting him out of his pasture, but he threw me halfway into the ride! SO now I am out of riding for a couple weeks. I am almost at my wits end with him. So frustrating!
         
        12-16-2008, 12:12 AM
      #19
    Trained
    Is the mini a mare too?

    Maybe he doesn't want to leave "his" mares alone?

    I'm sorry he threw you off :( I hope you feel better!
         
        12-16-2008, 12:40 AM
      #20
    Yearling
    Because he is making backward progress rather than forward to the point of causing and trying to cause harm to people, I would say it is time to get a few lessons/sessions with a trainer on this specific issue.

    The advice given by everyone was really good, but two very different methods. I think the method you choose really depends on the root of the problem with your horse, which would be easier for a trainer who is there to see. Also, dealing with these kind of things take spur of the moment and subtle corrections that have to be executed just so....difficult to cover all the basis from our typed communication of the HF.

    Be safe, and good luck. I hope that you can get past this with him so that you can enjoy him.
         

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