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and here we have the next Clinton Anderson!

This is a discussion on and here we have the next Clinton Anderson! within the Horse Training forums, part of the Training Horses category
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    07-16-2008, 08:11 AM
  #41
Foal
Quote:
Originally Posted by barefoothooves
Quote:
Originally Posted by crazyhorseriding
You know, I never heard of Clinton Anderson before so I had a look in his site and you can't denie the man has a smile like a second hand car salesman but at least with me you don't pay!
Um, well, you do get what you pay for in life...

I have to respectfully say that your methods aren't likely to be "the next big thing" for free or otherwise. What you teach is either old school methods (tying the head to tail or the "engagement ring" as you call it which is really a form of a chambogne (sp?)). Nothing new or necessarily unorthodox.
Your position is poor-leaning back is hard not only on your horse's back (evidence by his tense head postition) but your own as well. Leaning does not control the croup, your legs do when used properly.
The blindfold--NEVER in my life would I blindfold a horse over one eye or another to teach it anything. Maybe in a fire to lead it from danger, but as a training method? NO. What does it teach? You keep saying you will discuss in another video..why not now? I have a half blind horse..will that make him more supple? No.
Also, in the first video, Posisitions part 1, your saddle obviously does not fit. You can tell by the fack that it's up off the horse's back while you stand beside him talking. That will create a lot of problems and diffculty for your horse. It's uncomfortable at best, and possibly painful.
Your "engagement ring" is replacing simple side reins and tie downs. Could be useful in teaching to yield their heads, BUT if you put an unbalanced rider up there the head comes right back up as soon as the device is gone.
Your horse does not look happy to be working for you. He is tense, high headed and swtiching his tail. Your saddle looks cheap and doesn't fit. So how can you expect people to take you seriously, esp when you are not even wearing a shirt in one video? What are your credentials? You only demonstrate with the same horse over and over...show us your talent with multiple horses, that aren't yours, with different issues, in different locations to prove your method works.
Most of your postitions are not "new" they are listed in horsemanship books world-wide as "bad" after centuries of riders in different cultures have discovered the best, most effective and safest positiions to ride in, regardless of saddle style or lack thereof.
So don't get offended if people on here are critical of your methods. You haven't proven yourself to the world. Clinton Anderson may be all cleaned up, fancy saddles, clothes and sponsors, but he didn't start that way. He gained that through proving his methods work, and gaining popularity that way. He isn't the world's only trainer, but there is a reason he's popular the world over. His horses appear happy to work for him, his tack fits, and he uses orthodox postitions. He also takes time to explain the "why's" of his methods as they occur, instead of procrastinating with the reasons. I've never heard him say "I'll tell you later".
Oh, and you don't always have to pay for his tips. They are available in magazines, books in the library, etc. But I'm sure Clinton doesn't have a separate day job, all his time is in horse training, so if he sells information, he has that right. If they (tips) didn't work, he wouldn't be successfully making money. Can't fualt him.
I trim horses for a living. People PAY me to do something they can't or don't want to do. They pay for my mind and skill.They could try to do it themselves or have the neighbor do it for feree, does that mean they are getting a quality hoof trim? Maybe,but it's rare that someone that is GOOD at that sort of thing woudl be hiding away trimming for free. If you have skills, people will be happy to pay for them.

Believe me I don't get offended if people criticize me.
Also, no bad word about Anderson. He's out there and doing his thing and making a living of what he likes the most.
People pay you because you're good.Excellent I never criticezed you...
No some comments. Ihave a order to respect, so i'll talk abou the vision of the horse when we get there.
You talk about positions, I respond; only wite man is insane (and his soul agonazing ) enough to ride the way he does and I know it won't make me any more popular. He rides like a robot and invents methods just to hide his lack of feeling and comodity !
I know about side reins and tie downs, there the next step ,
Riding the same horse over and over ? Well yes...Bring me another one and i'll ride it. If some horsebreeder is joining our dicussion I made it clear no...
Not happy my horse ? You should of seen it one year ago (when you will see him running after my filly in another video maybe you will change your mind).
I don't have to proof myself to the world you know, it's enough when I superate myself everyday.
The difference between passion and ambition...
     
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    07-16-2008, 08:19 AM
  #42
Foal
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzyrider
im not really sure what to say here

I had a whole bunch of stuff written up and I decided it was no good lol ok so crazyhorse, all im going to say is please don't teach these methods to children. It is bad enough that you are riding your poor horse like that to start with but to bring along a whole new generation of riders using this method is truly horrifying. There is no need for this method really. Do you think the riders of grand prix horses doing classical dressage around the world were taught to do so using this method? No they use their seat and legs to bring the horse off of the forehand. These are the methods we should be following because obviously they work.

You could sit in the correct position and get a better result using your seat, legs and hands. And your horse would thank you for it because it hasnt had to carry all your weight in the worst fashion possible. To sum it up 'your position in those video looks truly awful'. I am sorry but I don't want any young, impressionable kids looking at this video and thinking that this is ok. Its fair enough to see other methods and peoples way but its another thing altogether for them to be doing it especially in the position you say is the correct one

And all I can say jazzy rider (no hard feelings) is that you arguments are incoherent and you, you reject because it's against the rules (rules that were transmitted to you, not because you discovered them by own account, white man functions like that)
     
    07-16-2008, 11:14 AM
  #43
Trained
Im sorry but I find your constant reference to the white mans short comings racist and offensive. Highly offensive!!!

I and my friends here seemed to find my post coherent and without lowering myself to anyone elses level its a bit of the pot calling the kettle black if you ask me. I find a lot of what you write hard to distinguish as well but hadnt mentioned that as its obvious that english isnt your first language. What is that accent by the way? From where im standing you yourself look like you are caucasian or in your terms, a white man.

And no I don't believe these things because they are the "rules" I believe them because I once rode with little regard for my horses comfort because I didnt know any better. Then someone showed me the correct way to do things and all of a sudden, by golly, I had a more relaxed horse whos head was down not sticking up in the air because he has all this weight on the wrong part of his back. The horse has a center of gravity for a reason and we ride within that for a reason. Its simple science really. Ride within a horses center of gravity and you have a much happier horse.

It doesnt matter how hard you argue the point you wont find anyone on this site who for a second will agree that this method serves any purpose for them. You can say my posts are incoherent as much as you like but once again im pretty sure you will be alone on that one too.

And yes your horse may be happy when he's chasing the filly around but does that mean he's happy when he's under saddle. The videos indicate he isnt happy, just an amazingly tolerant horse. If I rode my thoroughbred or warmblood like that they would be trying to get me on the ground in no time.

And who cares if someone did teach me correct posture. I hardly think im any less of a rider because I didnt figure it out for myself. I find your attitude rude and offensive on many levels

And finally some food for thought: im sure when clinton anderson was trying to spread his word around he didnt frequent forums and if he did im sure he would be trying to promote himself a little more professionally.

Peace out
     
    07-16-2008, 02:53 PM
  #44
Foal
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzyrider
im sorry but I find your constant reference to the white mans short comings racist and offensive. Highly offensive!!!

I and my friends here seemed to find my post coherent and without lowering myself to anyone elses level its a bit of the pot calling the kettle black if you ask me. I find a lot of what you write hard to distinguish as well but hadnt mentioned that as its obvious that english isnt your first language. What is that accent by the way? From where im standing you yourself look like you are caucasian or in your terms, a white man.

And no I don't believe these things because they are the "rules" I believe them because I once rode with little regard for my horses comfort because I didnt know any better. Then someone showed me the correct way to do things and all of a sudden, by golly, I had a more relaxed horse whos head was down not sticking up in the air because he has all this weight on the wrong part of his back. The horse has a center of gravity for a reason and we ride within that for a reason. Its simple science really. Ride within a horses center of gravity and you have a much happier horse.

It doesnt matter how hard you argue the point you wont find anyone on this site who for a second will agree that this method serves any purpose for them. You can say my posts are incoherent as much as you like but once again im pretty sure you will be alone on that one too.

And yes your horse may be happy when he's chasing the filly around but does that mean he's happy when he's under saddle. The videos indicate he isnt happy, just an amazingly tolerant horse. If I rode my thoroughbred or warmblood like that they would be trying to get me on the ground in no time.

And who cares if someone did teach me correct posture. I hardly think im any less of a rider because I didnt figure it out for myself. I find your attitude rude and offensive on many levels

And finally some food for thought: im sure when clinton anderson was trying to spread his word around he didnt frequent forums and if he did im sure he would be trying to promote himself a little more professionally.

Peace out
I didn't mean to be rude jazzyrider, but let's get a couple of things straight; it is the second time that I have been mentioned by a forum and not the other way around, OK.
And again I have been judged , condemned and despiced by people who know very little about horses.
If you go to my favourites in my channel in you tube you will see different riding positions of different cultures. Do they all suspend?
The way you see yes. But I don't have a problem jazz with the way you ride(and nobody has all the answers), but the show must go on, and every video will become increasingly more difficult and unless you'r really in shape and possess riding skillness arguments about my position(s) will be hard to sustain...
Also, I had a teacher myself/for 3 days) , his name is Diego Battistoni and was several times national champion (Argentina) in pole bending and reining and he , the same as what happened to you made a lot of things clear to me...
Look at my last video, it's done with a simple argentinian bridle !
Is this lack of legstrenght as they said in the other forum?
Is this unskilled riding ability?
And this is only the beginning !!
Reference to white man does not necesarily be offensive, I had a look in the mirror also...
     
    07-16-2008, 03:25 PM
  #45
Green Broke
You know it is so hard to understand what the heck your talking about....
     
    07-16-2008, 03:38 PM
  #46
Weanling
Quote:
Originally Posted by crazyhorseriding
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzyrider
im sorry but I find your constant reference to the white mans short comings racist and offensive. Highly offensive!!!

I and my friends here seemed to find my post coherent and without lowering myself to anyone elses level its a bit of the pot calling the kettle black if you ask me. I find a lot of what you write hard to distinguish as well but hadnt mentioned that as its obvious that english isnt your first language. What is that accent by the way? From where im standing you yourself look like you are caucasian or in your terms, a white man.

And no I don't believe these things because they are the "rules" I believe them because I once rode with little regard for my horses comfort because I didnt know any better. Then someone showed me the correct way to do things and all of a sudden, by golly, I had a more relaxed horse whos head was down not sticking up in the air because he has all this weight on the wrong part of his back. The horse has a center of gravity for a reason and we ride within that for a reason. Its simple science really. Ride within a horses center of gravity and you have a much happier horse.

It doesnt matter how hard you argue the point you wont find anyone on this site who for a second will agree that this method serves any purpose for them. You can say my posts are incoherent as much as you like but once again im pretty sure you will be alone on that one too.

And yes your horse may be happy when he's chasing the filly around but does that mean he's happy when he's under saddle. The videos indicate he isnt happy, just an amazingly tolerant horse. If I rode my thoroughbred or warmblood like that they would be trying to get me on the ground in no time.

And who cares if someone did teach me correct posture. I hardly think im any less of a rider because I didnt figure it out for myself. I find your attitude rude and offensive on many levels

And finally some food for thought: im sure when clinton anderson was trying to spread his word around he didnt frequent forums and if he did im sure he would be trying to promote himself a little more professionally.

Peace out
I didn't mean to be rude jazzyrider, but let's get a couple of things straight; it is the second time that I have been mentioned by a forum and not the other way around, OK.
And again I have been judged , condemned and despiced by people who know very little about horses.
If you go to my favourites in my channel in you tube you will see different riding positions of different cultures. Do they all suspend?
The way you see yes. But I don't have a problem jazz with the way you ride(and nobody has all the answers), but the show must go on, and every video will become increasingly more difficult and unless you'r really in shape and possess riding skillness arguments about my position(s) will be hard to sustain...
Also, I had a teacher myself/for 3 days) , his name is Diego Battistoni and was several times national champion (Argentina) in pole bending and reining and he , the same as what happened to you made a lot of things clear to me...
Look at my last video, it's done with a simple argentinian bridle !
Is this lack of legstrenght as they said in the other forum?
Is this unskilled riding ability?
And this is only the beginning !!
Reference to white man does not necesarily be offensive, I had a look in the mirror also...
First, all the Polo horses I've trimmed from Argentina are head cases that hate/fear people so bad we have to sedate them to pick up their feet because they have been mis-handled and roughed up their entire lives, so I'm not sure if I'm impressed yet by your 3-days of instruction and the source, but that doesn't mean all Argentine's are hard on their horses, just that I've yet to come across happy horses imported from there.....

And you are still avoiding direct questions. Where are you from? WHY do you think your posture works..why do you blindfold, etc. You are like a politician in how you dodge the real questions and draw attention to things that don't matter (white man comments??).

If you truely don't mind a little crticism, why do you fly to the forums that have picked at your videos to defend yourself. Read and learn and use that knowledge to either improve your skills or start explaining your theories in your videos instead of saying "I will explain later"

And you said you would ride other horses if someone brought them..there's a reason people aren't bringing you any...they want results first from the horse you already have. If no one else will even volunteer a horse for you to demo on for free, then that is a hint at your skills.

I truely hope that this forum will help open your eyes to the image you present in your videos and either stop you from promoting bad horsemanship or prompt you to PROVE and EXPLAIN how they are better.
     
    07-16-2008, 03:45 PM
  #47
Green Broke
Quote:
Originally Posted by barefoothooves
Quote:
Originally Posted by crazyhorseriding
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzyrider
im sorry but I find your constant reference to the white mans short comings racist and offensive. Highly offensive!!!

I and my friends here seemed to find my post coherent and without lowering myself to anyone elses level its a bit of the pot calling the kettle black if you ask me. I find a lot of what you write hard to distinguish as well but hadnt mentioned that as its obvious that english isnt your first language. What is that accent by the way? From where im standing you yourself look like you are caucasian or in your terms, a white man.

And no I don't believe these things because they are the "rules" I believe them because I once rode with little regard for my horses comfort because I didnt know any better. Then someone showed me the correct way to do things and all of a sudden, by golly, I had a more relaxed horse whos head was down not sticking up in the air because he has all this weight on the wrong part of his back. The horse has a center of gravity for a reason and we ride within that for a reason. Its simple science really. Ride within a horses center of gravity and you have a much happier horse.

It doesnt matter how hard you argue the point you wont find anyone on this site who for a second will agree that this method serves any purpose for them. You can say my posts are incoherent as much as you like but once again im pretty sure you will be alone on that one too.

And yes your horse may be happy when he's chasing the filly around but does that mean he's happy when he's under saddle. The videos indicate he isnt happy, just an amazingly tolerant horse. If I rode my thoroughbred or warmblood like that they would be trying to get me on the ground in no time.

And who cares if someone did teach me correct posture. I hardly think im any less of a rider because I didnt figure it out for myself. I find your attitude rude and offensive on many levels

And finally some food for thought: im sure when clinton anderson was trying to spread his word around he didnt frequent forums and if he did im sure he would be trying to promote himself a little more professionally.

Peace out
I didn't mean to be rude jazzyrider, but let's get a couple of things straight; it is the second time that I have been mentioned by a forum and not the other way around, OK.
And again I have been judged , condemned and despiced by people who know very little about horses.
If you go to my favourites in my channel in you tube you will see different riding positions of different cultures. Do they all suspend?
The way you see yes. But I don't have a problem jazz with the way you ride(and nobody has all the answers), but the show must go on, and every video will become increasingly more difficult and unless you'r really in shape and possess riding skillness arguments about my position(s) will be hard to sustain...
Also, I had a teacher myself/for 3 days) , his name is Diego Battistoni and was several times national champion (Argentina) in pole bending and reining and he , the same as what happened to you made a lot of things clear to me...
Look at my last video, it's done with a simple argentinian bridle !
Is this lack of legstrenght as they said in the other forum?
Is this unskilled riding ability?
And this is only the beginning !!
Reference to white man does not necesarily be offensive, I had a look in the mirror also...
First, all the Polo horses I've trimmed from Argentina are head cases that hate/fear people so bad we have to sedate them to pick up their feet because they have been mis-handled and roughed up their entire lives, so I'm not sure if I'm impressed yet by your 3-days of instruction and the source, but that doesn't mean all Argentine's are hard on their horses, just that I've yet to come across happy horses imported from there.....

And you are still avoiding direct questions. Where are you from? WHY do you think your posture works..why do you blindfold, etc. You are like a politician in how you dodge the real questions and draw attention to things that don't matter (white man comments??).

If you truely don't mind a little crticism, why do you fly to the forums that have picked at your videos to defend yourself. Read and learn and use that knowledge to either improve your skills or start explaining your theories in your videos instead of saying "I will explain later"

And you said you would ride other horses if someone brought them..there's a reason people aren't bringing you any...they want results first from the horse you already have. If no one else will even volunteer a horse for you to demo on for free, then that is a hint at your skills.

I truely hope that this forum will help open your eyes to the image you present in your videos and either stop you from promoting bad horsemanship or prompt you to PROVE and EXPLAIN how they are better.
i agree he isnt answering any of the direct questions we are asking him. We will ask again. WHERE ARE YOU FROM? WHY do you think the way your riding is correct. All I see when you are riding is stupidity and a hurting horse....and apparently a person who can't realize that your hurting your horse. If I could id take that horse away from you in a second.
     
    07-16-2008, 03:55 PM
  #48
Started
^^^ I agree

I take offense the the "white man" thing too. I'm hispanic. Lol. And I'm not a man.


Crazyhorseriding, I hope you feel extremely special when people give you advice about how to ride. I'm not going to waste my breath.
     
    07-16-2008, 07:34 PM
  #49
Trained
Ive made a decision as a mod and that is to lock this thread. If admin sees fit they will unlock it later but I feel at this point we arent getting anywhere.

Crazyhorse - listen to the people here. You say we know nothing about horses but once again 'pot calling the kettle black'. There is a wealth of information on this site and many many years of experience between us. Do you think maybe that somewhere along the line you got it a little wrong??
     

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