He's REALLY good to ride except... - The Horse Forum

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post #1 of 17 Old 11-09-2011, 05:49 PM Thread Starter
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He's REALLY good to ride except...

I've noticed that there are several threads that start with some variation of "My horse is really well trained but" or "My horse is really well mannered except when I...". You can't have a horse that is "well trained except". Either the horse is well trained all the time or the horse is not well trained. If you have a mare that is really well mannered except when she's in heat then guess what, she's not well mannered. If your horse is well trained but it won't stop guess what, it's not well trained. If you can ride your horse anywhere but past the barn, you guessed it, it's not well trained.

I read once that when someone pays you a compliment then follows it with "but" or "except" it means they were insencere about the compliment and you should disregard it. I don't know how true that is. It seems a little harsh to me but it seems to hold true in some of the comments on this forum.

If we as horsemen want to have the best horses we can we need to take the "buts" out of our statements. When we catch ourselves using a "but" then we should work diligently to correct what comes after it. I have a nice Appy gelding I just traded for and I can do anything I want on him BUT he gets a little jumpy when I rope off him. Guess what I do every time I ride him. You guessed it, I take down my rope and catch bushes and tree stumps and anything else that won't get me in trouble.

I hope this doesn't seem like a rant and it's not pointed at any one person so if I ended up quoting you a little too closely my point was not to offend. I look forward to hearing the thoughts of others.

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post #2 of 17 Old 11-09-2011, 06:06 PM
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I disagree some on this, because I bet every horse has a "but" or an "except for" - and the point of most of the posts you're talking about are to, as you say, improve on those "buts" and "excepts" and are looking for advice to do so.
Even though you say you're not ranting, it really sounds like that's all you're doing.

My 2 cents.
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post #3 of 17 Old 11-09-2011, 06:12 PM
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It depends on what you mean by "well trained". For example you can say "well trained to jump". But still may be unsafe/uncomfortable on trail. In fact I've seen it in cutting horses at the farm I went to last year. Absolutely amazingly trained to work in ring whether just warm-up or on cow (plus great ground manners etc.), but total nuts if you ride outside. Would you consider this "well trained" or "not trained"? I'd still say "well trained" for what they are trained.
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post #4 of 17 Old 11-09-2011, 06:28 PM
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Every horse is trained different. What you think is 'well trained' someone will always disagree. In another persons eyes their horse is well trained. We're all opinionated and that's fair, but people, including you and me, have to remember that not everything is perfect. It's what makes us, us. There will always be something that we don't like about a horse, they don't come packed in cardboard boxes. I think my horse is great to ride, and 'well trained' for his level, but I don't like it when he pulls on the bit to evade pressure. That's the way it goes. A horse isn't going to be well trained all the time, "You Guessed It" THEY'RE HORSES!
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post #5 of 17 Old 11-09-2011, 06:29 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reiterin View Post
I disagree some on this, because I bet every horse has a "but" or an "except for" - and the point of most of the posts you're talking about are to, as you say, improve on those "buts" and "excepts" and are looking for advice to do so.
Even though you say you're not ranting, it really sounds like that's all you're doing.

My 2 cents.
That's a fair critisism. Most horse do have a "but" just like the example I gave. I wouldn't consider my horse well trained. If I was going to describe him I would say "he's coming along well BUT...". I have another horse that I would absolutely say was well trained. If I wanted to take him and do dressage he would do the best he could do. If I wanted to jump him he would do the best he could do. He would give it an honest effort. He wouldn't be a great jumper and only a fair dressage horse but he'd be honest and there would be no "buts".

If a horse is a well trained cutter then I would expect no "buts" after that statement. The same would go for a well trained jumper. When we are talking about a general riding horse I would expect the same. How silly would it sound to say "my horse is a great jumper BUT he refuses most of the time". There is far too much contridiction for that statement to have any meaning. If it were my horse I would say"my horse has great potential as a jumper if I can keep him from refusing". It says the same thing except it defines what needs to be done and who needs to do it.

Words are powerful things and they can reflect a lot about how we see ourselves and our goals. Sometimes our words change as our attitudes change but sometimes if we change the words first our attitudes follow right along.

Can anyone tell I've been pondering a lot today?
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post #6 of 17 Old 11-09-2011, 06:31 PM
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I'd agree with this to a point.

I think it's unfair to say that a horse can't be well trained if it has a "but" situation. For instance, my mare is an absolute angel with kids. She's very very careful with them and even on days when she's excited, she's calms herself right down as soon as a kid shows up.
BUT, for me she's a little sass-a-frass. Sure, she's careful with me (in that if I ever start falling off or something she stops immediatly) but she does do things to me that any sane horse person would worry profusely about. Does that change how she behaves with kids? No, she can go from having a crazy ride with me to being an old plodder for a kid or inexperienced rider in a matter of seconds.
Of course, I'm working on training her to behave better for me but seeing as how I've been working on this with her for nearly 4 years, I kinda feel like a whole lot isn't going to change.
I wouldn't consider her super well trained (at least if we're talking well trained as in being highly trained in one discipline), and I certainly hope that there are horses much better trained than she is, but she's trained well enough to do her job (aka teaching kids) and do her job well.

That's just my probably unnecessary thoughts. Haha

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post #7 of 17 Old 11-09-2011, 06:40 PM Thread Starter
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I think you could be using your "but" as an excuse (that's the first time I've ever told THAT to a woman). Your horse is an ill-mannered witch with you "but" she's good with kids. Now in your case, you have made enough posts on this forum that I'm pretty sure that you haven't stopped trying to get her to behave but many people do. Not just with horses. "My husband hits me BUT only when he's drinking". I heard that one from my sister many times. She used her "but" to keep from making changes.

I guess my main point with all this is that we can't let our "but" however large they may be get in the way of our progression as horsemen. In our horsemanship there is only going forward and going backwards ther is NO holding still. If you don't work to shrink your "buts" then they will only get bigger.
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There's nothing like the Rockies in the springtime... Nothing like the freedom in the air... And there ain't nothing better than draggin calves to the fire and there's nothing like the smell of burning hair. -Brenn Hill
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post #8 of 17 Old 11-09-2011, 06:42 PM
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I'll go against the grain and say that I 100% agree Kevin.

Yes, every horse may have a 'but'. So that's what you work on, you remove that but. Isn't that what training a horse is about, removing the 'buts' so you end up with a very solidly trained horse in all aspects?
I wouldn't take Kevin's post as an attack or rant by any means, what he is saying is certainly true. So instead of bracing ourselves and making excuses for our horse's 'buts', why not accept this and go and do something about it?
I think people get too complacent with their horses issues and learn to live with them. Should we not be trying to find a way to fix those issues instead? Would our horses be much more of a pleasure to ride and handle, if we removed that 'but'?
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post #9 of 17 Old 11-09-2011, 06:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kevinshorses View Post
That's a fair critisism. Most horse do have a "but" just like the example I gave. I wouldn't consider my horse well trained. If I was going to describe him I would say "he's coming along well BUT...". I have another horse that I would absolutely say was well trained. If I wanted to take him and do dressage he would do the best he could do. If I wanted to jump him he would do the best he could do. He would give it an honest effort. He wouldn't be a great jumper and only a fair dressage horse but he'd be honest and there would be no "buts".

If a horse is a well trained cutter then I would expect no "buts" after that statement. The same would go for a well trained jumper. When we are talking about a general riding horse I would expect the same. How silly would it sound to say "my horse is a great jumper BUT he refuses most of the time". There is far too much contridiction for that statement to have any meaning. If it were my horse I would say"my horse has great potential as a jumper if I can keep him from refusing". It says the same thing except it defines what needs to be done and who needs to do it.

Words are powerful things and they can reflect a lot about how we see ourselves and our goals. Sometimes our words change as our attitudes change but sometimes if we change the words first our attitudes follow right along.

Can anyone tell I've been pondering a lot today?
You couldn't be more right in your OP, it cracked me up. Any guesses on how many pages there's going to be with people telling you that you're wrong and their horse is a special case?

I hated english class at school and can't believe I'm saying this, but you're right about the words we use especially on the internet were there is no other way to express the tone of what you're saying.
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post #10 of 17 Old 11-09-2011, 06:52 PM
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I think there is two sides to this :)
1.yes you can say well trained because most horses are trained for one thing... 2.the other side that says any one fault its not well trained ..
But that goes with a grain of salt depending on what stage/level the problem is. For say if the horse has bad ground manners and rides great in the discipline it was trained then to me that's not well trained since the horse doesn't know the basics.
But if the horse has great ground manners does the discipline without hesitation and the rider wants to try something different then yes the "but except for" would be a good way to describe it... or that could just be me... :)

Just my 2 cents... :)
And kevin it did sound like a rant... hahaha but its ok everyone does it atleast once :)
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