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post #11 of 35 Old 01-01-2010, 09:50 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks for the advice everyone. I feel like I have a little more of a game plan now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ReiningTrainer View Post
If your horse was ridden saddle seat she may be trying to do what she thinks you want her to do. You can teach her to lower her head with one easy lesson and then help her to strengthen her topline both on the ground as well as in the saddle.

Place a snaffle bit in her mouth (full cheek or dee ring) and from the ground apply downward pressure with the rein. As soon as her ears move the slightest bit down, release all pressure instantly. Continue this pressure and release until you get her head to the ground. When she will consistantly lower her head to the pressure try it from the saddle.
I'm a little confused by what you mean when you say "when her ears move down"? Do you mean when her head moves down? Also how am I supposed to put downward pressure with the reins while I'm in the saddle?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ReiningTrainer View Post
If her head gets too low or you want it up, apply the pressure and don't release until the head comes upward (just opposite of what you did before). The horse will learn to search for the release, you have to be consistant in only releasing when you get what you are looking for. The horse will learn the difference even though it seems the same to you.
The "search for the release" makes a lot of sense. Thanks.



Quote:
Originally Posted by kevinshorses View Post
Does your flex her head laterally and vertically? Do you have control of her front quarters and hindquarters independently? How much time to you spend at the trot without asking anything else of her?

If she won't flex vert and lat then you won't be able to lower her head even with drawreins and if she will you won't need them. If you can place her feet where you need them she will soon relaxe and put her head down because you won't need to pull on her head as much. The more you trot her without asking her for anything else the more relaxed she will get about it and her head will level out.
She has a very bendable neck. On the ground I can get her to stretch down and low and to each side. I usually spend most of my time trotting her, working on her steering and bending. When you ask if I have control of over her front end and hindquarters independently, do you mean can I get her to sidepass, haunch turn, etc? I haven't really worked on those yet. I should get on that.



Quote:
Originally Posted by ~*~anebel~*~ View Post
Good advice is being given.
The only thing I have to add is please contact a dressage trainer in your area, or another instructor that can actually teach the basics of riding, and take some lessons.
Although it is nice to get advice on an internet forum, the only way to get a true evaluation of what is going wrong and how to fix it is to have a pair of knowledgeable and experienced eyes on the ground.

Good luck!
No offense, but I already know the basics of riding. I've taken plenty of lessons from a more than competent instructor and plan to take more. The problem with all the lessons that I've taken is that I would ride well-trained, made horses more often than I would ride green ones. It's the difference between learning something from the horse or teaching the horse something. I know how ride a horse to get the correct headset when the horse already knows how it should be putting its head, but what I'm having trouble with is teaching the concept to a horse that has no clue.
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post #12 of 35 Old 01-01-2010, 10:58 PM
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But the basics of riding is not getting a 'headset'? Hmmmm
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post #13 of 35 Old 01-01-2010, 11:31 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kayty View Post
But the basics of riding is not getting a 'headset'? Hmmmm
I agree, it is part of the basics on a horse that knows what it's doing. Personally, and you may disagree, I wouldn't call attempting to get a headset on a green horse part of the basics. That's much more difficult.
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post #14 of 35 Old 01-02-2010, 12:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RomanticLyric View Post
I agree, it is part of the basics on a horse that knows what it's doing. Personally, and you may disagree, I wouldn't call attempting to get a headset on a green horse part of the basics. That's much more difficult.
I think you completely misunderstood my post.
But I'm glad you gave that reply... I was worried you were saying you knew the basics of riding... because you could get a horse to put it's head in the 'right place' on an educated schoolmaster. Head set is by FAR not the 'basics of riding'.... if you want to train horses, you need to understand that before you even look at the head, you need to have straightness, impulsion, bend/flexion, reactivity to the aids etc. etc. etc. and suprise suprise, the head will follow suit without you even doing anything.
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post #15 of 35 Old 01-02-2010, 01:22 PM
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I agree with Anebel! There is only so much we can do, although from what you have said her headset probably comes from her saddleseat and racing training. I would advice to use side reigns, but you have to "push" your mare from behind, make her track up, make her use her abdominals, and make her round through the topline, build muscle, and set her head in a frame. This is hard to demonstrate over the internet, but a dressage trainer can help you. Whether you ride western or english, dressage is awesome and you can teach your horse to do anything using a good dressage base. :)
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post #16 of 35 Old 01-02-2010, 01:32 PM
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Here is some more reading.
This is just one way to go about it and is not the only way.

Lateral Flexion is The Key to Vertical Flexion with horses
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post #17 of 35 Old 01-02-2010, 01:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RomanticLyric View Post
No offense, but I already know the basics of riding. I've taken plenty of lessons from a more than competent instructor and plan to take more. The problem with all the lessons that I've taken is that I would ride well-trained, made horses more often than I would ride green ones. It's the difference between learning something from the horse or teaching the horse something. I know how ride a horse to get the correct headset when the horse already knows how it should be putting its head, but what I'm having trouble with is teaching the concept to a horse that has no clue.
Even Anky van Grunsven, the number one ranked dressage rider in the world takes lessons. Every day, in fact.
If you think you know everything, and don't need lessons, then why are you posting a thread asking for help?
And all lessons are not taught on a lesson horse, most of the time trainers teach you on your horse.
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post #18 of 35 Old 01-02-2010, 11:21 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ~*~anebel~*~ View Post
Even Anky van Grunsven, the number one ranked dressage rider in the world takes lessons. Every day, in fact.
If you think you know everything, and don't need lessons, then why are you posting a thread asking for help?
And all lessons are not taught on a lesson horse, most of the time trainers teach you on your horse.
If you look carefully at what I wrote, I actually wrote: "I've taken plenty of lessons from a more than competent instructor and plan to take more."

I don't think I know everything. That is why I'm asking for help. I just don't have the money to be take a lot of lessons right now, and I feel bad asking my trainer's advice without a lesson because she's also my friend, you know, the whole, asking a doctor friend for medical advice thing. It's tacky. Plus, I don't think her opinion is the only opinion in the world, which is partly why I posted here - to see what everyone else thought about the matter.

As for the "all lessons are not taught on a lesson horse, most of the time trainers teach you on your horse," that's not true in my case. I only got my first and only horse in September, and up until then, I had never taken a lesson on MY horse. So, while I plan to take lessons on my horse in the future, that has not been the case up until recently.

In summary, I'm sorry if I came off like "I think I know everything." That is definitely not the case. I think the word "basics" threw me off guard, because I've been riding for 5-6 years now, and I'm pretty sure I have "the basics" down. But then again, I suppose my definition of "basics" could be different than yours.
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post #19 of 35 Old 01-03-2010, 02:36 AM
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My coach is also one of my best friends, and I pick her brains every time I have a problem. That's what they're their for. And if she comes down to help me (she lives about 500 metres down the road from me!) then I'll give her a bottle of wine or give her lunch for her efforts.

Don't feel bad to ask for help, that is what a coach is for. If I go to a clinic, I will pick the brains of the clinician with every single question that pops into my head. That is how you learn, you don't learn unless you ask for help.
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post #20 of 35 Old 01-03-2010, 03:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MIEventer View Post
That is exactly what I was thinking. Instead of pointing your finger at the horse, stop and look at the 3 others pointing back at you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MIEventer View Post

If your mare carries her head normally at the walk, and while you are leading her, I'd be questioning your seat.

It is a possibillity that she is dropping her back, to evade your seat - and when she hollows out her back, her head goes up.

I am also going to assume that she has no topline - no topline means a weak back, neck, rump.

Sorry, I have to leave for work -


Personal experiance I completly agre with this.

Before: With incorrect riding *lose rein, eyes down, rocking leg* But the main thing is I was asking for him to push forward BUT he was just going faster because I had a long rein.


Now: With circle work, another trainer, a more solid seat, contact in my reins I have this.



To get him to do this I rode on a circle (it really helped), then "opened" my inside rein, kept him round in the body with my inside leg and used the outside leg to keep him together. But the main thing is not speed it is collection. As soon as he brought his head ito that posistion, I realeased with my reins. The video below is my instructor talking us threw it. But honestly it can be discribed over the internet, as it was for me. I tried and failed (his head basically went higher) but having one lesson with an excellent dressage/jumping instructor resulted in the picture below.


Thought I'd add that riding comes from the hind-quaters forwards, this is completly true! I was going to use side reins, draw reins, ect. But after one lesson with Aamelia. It would have been a waste of money. We still have a long, long way to go. But correct riding from me, proper training and working with our instructors will get us there and I won't feel like well that's what side reins do I will feel like that's what I did.

Sir Success. Eventer.
2000 - 2013,

Last edited by ChingazMyBoy; 01-03-2010 at 03:12 AM.
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