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This is a discussion on High Head Set within the Horse Training forums, part of the Training Horses category
  • Saddleseat head set
  • Nosed out head in saddleseat

 
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    01-04-2010, 09:59 PM
  #31
Weanling
Thanks kevinshorses.

@LadyDreamer: That's just what I was told about what the girl was riding her in. In dressage, when they ride with a double bridle, their goal (and what the bit does) is not usually to encourage the horse to raise their head. I was given to understand that this was the case with saddleseat bits and/or training. I could definitely be wrong though.
     
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    01-04-2010, 10:18 PM
  #32
Started
Not berating you, just giving some friendly feedback for the sake of knowledge.

Well, a Saddleseat type horse's head/neck is usually capable of coming up high naturally. You have that high neck carriage, with a dropped nose, looking through the bridle, and whatnot. Ideally you are looking for a chess piece. If your SS horse's nose comes out, she is giving you the Royal F-you, evading the bit, telling you to go fly a kite... Not to mention that the first stages of training on a saddleseat horse, such as giving to the bridle, dropping their noses, coming down, is usually done in a snaffle. Double bridles are very advanced and come well after the single-rein to double rein on just the snaffle transition. In saddleseat, the bradoon or snaffle is used as your main control, and the curb used to set his head.

TBs are not highly sought after Saddleseat horses, even in the open classes, so I am skeptical of her former owner trying to make her so, as the natural high placed neck is not generally present on a TB. Not saying she wasn't but, even so, I am doubtful. Even in the open breed classes, you never see a person try to force a QHs neck up. If they are ridden Saddleseat, they should have their head where it is most comfortable for them, though still be collected and present a nice overall picture. I could not imagine trying to physically hold a horse's head in that position when they are not built to do so. That would require much arm strength and not be a very fun class. :)

As for your horse... what I see in the first video(haven't had time to watch the others yet) is not so much that her head is up, but her nose is out. Nose out in any picture to me says "I am fighting and/or not listening to this bit". It could be that she is used to being cued from the curb to drop her nose, and without it is evading.
     
    01-04-2010, 11:38 PM
  #33
Weanling
I know you weren't berating me. I fully admit to my ignorance on the subject of saddleseat. I don't think my trainer knows very much about it either. Everything I've heard about her former training is hearsay, so I can't defend it very well, at least, not with the almighty "I saw it with my own eyes." My thoroughbred does have a fairly high neck set, so I would believe that the girl was trying to train her in saddleseat. What I actually think happened is this girl was trying to train her in this because that was all the girl had ever ridden. Why she bought Lyra in the first place is anyone's guess, but like I said, she does have a higher neck set. The girl only had her for a few months, so she may have not gotten to the point of teaching her how to drop her nose. The scenario that you painted is also possible, that she knows, but only with a curb. I do not plan to ride her in a curb, ever, so I guess I'm going to have to retrain her to do it with a snaffle. Thanks for the lesson in saddleseat, it was certainly interesting.
     
    01-04-2010, 11:52 PM
  #34
Foal
When talking about watching the ears go down I am referring to the tips traveling down with the head, not individual ear movement. It is easier to see the ears move from the saddle then trying to see the head and is a bit clearer as the head my twist and turn without going down. If the ears go down the head went down.

I must not have been clear, but you will not be putting downward pressure from the saddle, it will actually be upward. You prep the horse from the ground and they will try down sooner if you do. The horse will try up, left, right, forward, and back. You will follow the head to keep the pressure on the bit the same. You may have to adjust your hands on the reins in the begining so you are not hitting yourself in the nose lol. The important thing to remember is to keep the same pressure on the bit where ever the head goes and drop it like a hot rock at the slightest movement downward. The lesson should only take 20mins for the horse to start to understand to take the head down when you apply pressure.

The horse cares not where the pressure comes from, only that it can find a place that you will release it from the pressure. We use hand placement to help the horse guess the right answer sooner so they can learn the lesson faster.

Hope that helps clarify it for you : )
     
    01-05-2010, 12:00 AM
  #35
Weanling
^ It does! Thank you.
     

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