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Horse Being a Brat on the Lunge

6K views 34 replies 15 participants last post by  loosie 
#1 ·
Today I tried to lunge charlie, and I have been for the past few days and he will go around the circle like one or twice if im lucky then turn in to face me and stop. I turn him out again and crack the whip when he seems like hes about to stop but he just ignores it and turns into come towards me again. Today he did one circle and stopped, then twice doing half a circle and stopping with his ears back he calmly walks up and bites the crap out of my forearm I mean HARD. He has never done that before! I have a huge hideous bruise about the size of a tennis ball forming on my arm now. I am not sure if I am doing this lungeing thing wrong or if Charlie doesn't understand?

I have tried to lead him in a circle a few times and let some slack out to make him eventually get out into a circle at a walk, but he insists on staying right next to me. What should I do? I popped him HARD on the shoulder after he bit me, I'm not going to let him develop a biting habit!
 
#2 ·
Coming to you and biting is, in my opionion, an "attack". But, when you're not reacting correctly untill he's already next to you, you're already too late. When he only looks like he's got the intention of coming towards you, immediatly chase him away (I hope this is proper English). This isn't the behaviour you would like to see on a horse, and it could develop in a serious (dangerous) problem.
 
#8 ·
Where are you positioned when you are asking your horse to go around?What head gear is he wearing?Is he new to lunging?How much line do you have him out on?Just a few questions to try see more what is going on:lol::wink:
When he slows down or is looking like he's going to try to do something you haven't asked for get after him!!push him forward,make him know you mean business:-x But this is only all good if you are asking him to lunge correctly to begin with,if you aren't then can turn from bad to worse:-(
Posting a video could help show the problems & we can advise on how to fix better:wink:
 
#9 ·
I hope you got after him so hard that he thought he was going to die after he bit you!!!!!! If not, well you can't blame him for the aggression because you taught him that you will stop 'annoying' him if he attacks you.

Regarding lunging - first things first. Do you actually know how to lunge (not just the assumption that you put the horse on a long rope and run it around in circles by cracking a whip behind it)? And has your horse been lunged? Are you lunging in a round yard? What gear are you lunging off (bridle, halter, cavesson etc)? How are you attaching the lunge rein (ie directly to the bit?), what is your purpose for lunging (no point lunging just because you feel like it), does your horse understand voice commands for walk, trot and canter - and are you using them?

Lunging is FAR more complex than running a horse in a circle and hoping not to get kicked. The aggression I suspect is a respect issue that is only now rearing it's ugly head because you are putting pressure on the horse by driving it. I love to lunge a horse before I ride just to be able to gauge its reactions.
I put my breaker onto some 10m circles then ran him out down the long side into medium trot and turning back onto a 10m circle - first time running next to him and driving him up, turns his haunches towards me and humps. He copped a whip across the backside and a banshee running at him sending him into canter.
He doesn't even consider turning his haunches at me now - get after them properly once, and they shouldn't do it again.
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#10 ·
I would have to agree that the horse has realized that you may not know as much about lunging as you think. it's quite possible that you are blocking his forward movement by your body position, and at the same time whipping the aire to tell him to go forward. the mixed signals are enough to drive any horse crazy. he reacts by stopping , either becuae he thinks that what your body is telling him to do, or becuase he is fed up, and when you become emotional, with the whip, so does he, and he bites.

I cannot blame you if you do not know how to lunge. no one is born knowing this. you need to ask someone to help you. it's as simple as that. we cannot really help you that much with written word, and to flail around without assistance will only firm up this response from him so that he gets harder and harder, and more dangerous .

So, please ask someone to help you soon, ok? you'll learn a lot and I bet you won't be sorry.
 
#11 ·
Exactly Tiny.
I think lunging is a FAR under rated skill, people seem to think that all you need is a long rope and big whip to crack, and away you go.
I have had many, many, many hours worth of lessons purely on lunging. My horses go on the lunge how I want them to go under saddle. If you can't get that kind of control then there is little point in lunging unless you're scared to ride and would rather look at your nice looming beastie running laps around you!
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#12 ·
Well guys I am trying to lunge him (I also take him on long walks) to try and help get him fitter so I can ride him. He has been a pasture pet for years and I want to be able to ride him again!
Position is i face is side..if that makes sense...and i turn as he turns! He is wearing a halter, no lungeing gear. I am thinking he isn't new to lungeing but I cant remember if the previous owner ever did but my dad has lunged him before and he did fine. The amount of line would be like eight feet out.

I know i am most likely doing this all wrong but I dont have a cavesson or side reins or a surcingle. I am just trying to get him a little fitter!
 
#13 ·
You don't need a ton of gear to lunge a horse. Halter and lead rope or a round pen at minimal. A flat halter can work or a rope halter if he leans on it. A whip or training stick may be needed if he doesn't listen to your body language. That is basically all I ever use.

I would guess, because I'm not there or have a video to watch, two things are happening.

First, you are nagging him to keep going forward and/or you are having him do mindless circles. What are you doing with the whip when he does go forward? Do you hold it in the air behind him or do you let the end drop to the ground? If he was to keep going around, how long would you let him keep going before you stop him or change his direction? How often do you lunge him? What else do you do with him?

Second, when he doesn't listen, what do you do to get him to listen? Is cracking the whip or hitting the ground the most? Would you consider giving him a whack with the whip? If not, he has figured this out. You won't enforce what you ask of him, so he doesn't have to listen.
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#15 ·
I hold the whip up as I have him go around. Should I just have the end on the ground? If he was to keep going around id get him to go like four times around me then stop and get petted and a hug and a pat then a little longer. I have lunged him the last 3 days. As I am trying to get his fitness level up so I can ride him again, I am trying to lunge him and I am making sure to take him for walks, sometimes in the riding pasture (a grassy arena) or in the pasture which is hilly. When he does listen, I send him back out to try it again! I would consider giving him a whack on the butt!
 
#14 ·
Hey, don't get discouraged. You are trying. You just have to be careful and not get hurt. I am trying to learn lunging techniques. There is so much to learn. It just seems so discouraging. Who knows this may lead to you being horse trainer.
 
#16 ·
Think of lunging as riding just from the ground. When riding, would you keep kicking even when the horse has listened and gone forward? I would hope not.
So why keep the pressure of the whip on when he is going on the lunge? Ask once with voice, back up with a flick of the whip towards his haunches, if he doesn't respond then flick it over his haunches. As soon as he goes forward, lower the whip and allow it to trail along the ground, like your keg should do by just hanging by his side under saddle when he's going.

If he tries to cut in towards you, point the whip at his girth/shoulder, flick it if he doesn't move out. If he really tries to cut towards you, step towards his shoulder keeping the whip pointed at his girth. As soon as he moves away from you, stop moving towards him and carry on as usual.
I do not hesitate to run at a horses shoulder if he moves in on me with ears back - that is not being lazy/loss of balance on a circle - it is disrespect and you need to send him away, hard!
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#18 ·
So basically snap the whip to get him going which he always does at a trot and then hold it but have it pointed at the ground, and should I still be facing my body towards his sides? Then if he starts to try and come too close, raise it towards his shoulder.. what if he starts running a circle then automatically stops and faces me and walks towards me? Am I right to send him back out? If I run at him and he puts his ears back should i keep doing it and know hes just trying to scare me? hes scary when he gets mad..haha
 
#17 ·
Different people lunge differently for different reasons. Personally, I think holding the whip up is nagging him and actually teaches him to ignore it. Also, nagging irritates. Think of someone constantly telling you to do something while you're doing it. That could cause him to come at you and bite.

He could also be getting irritated or bored by lunging daily.

Personally, unless he needs weight gained or he needs training to be rode, I would just get on him and ride. Keep rides short at first while he builds his muscle and slowly increase the time on him. That gives him the best exercise, in my opinion.
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#19 ·
Use your voice, too. If he cuts in towards you and you feel like you need to defend yourself, bring out your man-voice and growl at him, say HEY! or BACK OFF! At the very least, it'll help you feel more powerful! :) No matter what, he should never be allowed to bite you, if he does, you need to make him believe for a moment or two that he's going to die. You don't need to beat up on him, but you need to make your body language strong and aggressive so he knows what you're on about. And when the scene is over, when he's behaving himself again, it's important to carry on as usual and not hold a grudge. Horses forgive easily, and so should you if you want to be the "alpha mare". :)
 
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#20 ·
It sounds to me like he's an assertive type horse & because you didn't know what you were doing, he's learned that the way to stop the annoyance of being lunged, is to turn in to you. Then when he had really enough, he 'told' you with his look to stop hassling & go away, but you didn't, so he 'turned up the pressure' by walking at you while 'telling'. But you didn't, so he 'turned up the pressure' more by biting you.

I think you probably should forget about lunging for the time being. You have said he doesn't lead well, crowds you, doesn't move out on lead when you ask, so I would be getting the basics down first, before progressing to lunging. You need to be assertive, use the kind of 'language' he used on you to get you to leave him alone - pressure & release - he wouldn't have kept up the 'pressure' if you quit when he gave you the look, or if you yielded when he started approaching you. You need to be consistent with your 'rules' & the consequences, and pay attention to his bodylanguage & the timing of what you do.

As he's an assertive boy who's already learned how to 'work' you, this could very easily & quickly escalate without careful handling, so I would strongly advise finding a trainer or good horseperson to help you with him.
 
#22 ·
Wow! This horse sounds dangerous! He obviously has no respect whatsoever for you, and that is essential to having a safe horse. I would NOT recommend sending him to a professional trainer, because that wouldn't solve the problem of respect towards YOU. I would recommend getting Clinton Anderson's Gaining Respect And Control On The Ground DVD's. Sure they are expensive, but worthwhile.
Meanwhile I'll give you some advice.
You need to think "I'm bigger than this horse. This horse WON'T push me around!" When you lung, you first point, then if he doesn't go, cluck. If he still doesn't go, spank him on the hindquarters. Just as simple as that. If he tries to act aggressive, remember, you are bigger than him. Put on the pressure and spank him. I don't want to sound cruel or anything, you just gotta do what needs done. You really don't want a dangerous horse on your hands.
I've had my own experience with aggressive horses on the lung line, so I think I have room to speak. ;)
If he kicks out with you, lay on the pressure again. If he pulls on the line, (I would suggest using a rope halter with knots on the nose) bump his nose toward you.
YOU need to act aggressive like the alpha horse. Have you seen horses in the field how they react toward each other? The alpha horse minces no words.
Horses understand body language more than vocal commands.
 
#23 ·
So no professional trainer can get any horse respectful for the owner?

Yes a professional trainer can get the horse respectful to the OP. If the OP doesn't follow through with the training, the horse will stop being respectful and go back to the way they were.

I do agree with getting or viewing Clinton Anderson's videos. You don't have to buy them directly from him. You usually can find them cheaper on ebay or other sites. I've heard that you can rent them on giddyupflix. Or you can subscribe to his website for $20 per month and watch as many as you want.
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#25 ·
I see a lot of people with the best intentions in the world, who love their horse unconditionally and have an unlimited amount of time to dedicate to working with their horse but lack the knowledge, confidence and experience to educate it. They have a goal but they are stuck as to where the horse is, what to do next and to what level the horse is trained! They are trying to teach the horse drills/exercises and they have not covered the basics. Although they mean well they do not know where they are and do not know where they are going. The chances of being successful under those circumstances are extremely remote and very confusing to the horse. My question is does your horse know the basics; Ground Handling, Ground Manners?
 
#26 ·
DEFINITELY learn to lunge from a trainer and use a SAFE horse. I am a lunging klutz, but I am working with 2 geldings of which I have developed REALLY GOOD relationships. For instance, yesterday I took the day off and had "Lunging Buster Brown" on my job list. I was gardening, he was hanging around the training arena gate, so I stopped my gardening, got out my lunging halter and my Dressage whip, haltered him and led him into the training arena. I had a plan in mind, cruise control and some yielding, backing practice and "whoa" practice--things he needed to improve upon, and we got to work with LOTS AND LOTS of PRAISE!!! We took breaks so I could love on him, and had a very good and RELAXING session, and I left him wanting more training.
It could very well be that your horse has had some bad experiences lunging and he resents it.
Until you or someone else establishes both authority and trust with him, it will be dangerous to lunge him. Get some help bc just learning to lunge him is going to be both dangerous and very frustrating for you.
 
#28 ·
I love your post Elena. The use of proper lunging equipment allows the handler so many more possibilities than simply running the horse on a circle in a halter.
A halter very simply does not allow you do do anything other than tug for a bit of direction. I lunge how I want my horse's to be ridden - hence side reins and roller, they travel straight, forward and with an elastic contact on the lunge line.
My 3 yr old does not need a round yard to be able to work on a circle. Out in the arena, he demonstrates beautiful 20m circles with correct bend, flexion, looseness of the back and shoulder, and is happily reaching forward into the bridle - yes, in front of the vertical with side reins on.
The improvement of his balance and responsiveness under saddle has improved 10 fold with lunging 'for a purpose'. He understands a contact, his back knows how to lift and carry, he knows how to travel straight and forward. Lunging makes saddle work SO much easier if you lunge with a purpose.

I know I've already posted similar, but I can't stress enough how important it is to lunge the horse as you want it to be ridden.
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#29 ·
I stand by what I said.

Does a horse need shoes to be rode? Does a horse need a blanket? Does a horse need supplements to survive? Do you need a protective vest or helmet to ride? Do you need a curcingle or side reins to lunge? Does the horse need a bit and bridle or a saddle to be rode?

All answers are no. Can each be beneficial? Sure but not needed. I never said that you couldn't or shouldn't use them but they aren't necessary to lunge a horse.

The OP is having issues with getting the horse to lunge. They don't need to worry or be concerned about having the horse collected, on the bit, bend or such. First thing is getting the horse to move. None of the extra tools will help teach the horse how to lunge.

I believe I said before that people lunge differently. I feel that holding a whip up behind the horse IS nagging. If you feel better making your triangle with the line and whip, good for you.

Elana, you must have one heck of a whip if you can still reach a horse that is out on a 30' line.
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#30 ·
I stated in an earlier post how I lunge - as soon as I get a reaction, the whip is lowered and trailed on the ground until required again. Never said anything about holding the whip in the air constantly.
Like I said, I lunge how I ride. I get a reaction from the leg, then the leg simply hangs until needed again - same with the lunge whip.
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#31 ·
Every time you work a horse you have an opportunity to train. Of course, as someone who trained horses that is what I did. I stand by what I said. If you need to drive the horse forward and the horse is doing something else and the crack of the whip does not convey the message, the touch of the lash WILL convey it. You may need to step forward (you ARE driving the horse) but never have a whip too short that cannot reach the horse!

Did this for nearly 40 years. All my horses learned to lunge nicely.

An aside.. by having the correct equipment on the horse, you are also gaining control. A halter gives you nothing.. and a knotted rope halter can work against teaching the horse to go forward.

The first horse I had I was told to teach to lunge (I was a kid in Pony club). So.. I put a halter on him. I had no lunge line so I used hay rope (and as you will see it was a good thing). I had a whip.. but not a lunge whip.

I took this usually cooperative horse out in his halter in the flattest place I could find in his pasture and started to drive him in a circle to lunge. got him going to the left and then going to the right. This horse was very "sided" and going right was hard for him. About the 4th circle around he had enough and he took off straight. At a gallop. I was a kid.. and had wrapped the hay rope around my hand. With the halter I could not stop the horse and the wrap was too tight to get loose.. and so I was taken off my feet and dragged. Through the WOODS. The horse swerved.. and the Man Upstairs musta been watchin' over me as the hay rope (thankfully it was a hay rope) broke just as I was about to be dragged into the base of a large tree. My wost problem was a little road rash on my arms and a rope burn on my hand and scuffed up dirty pants.

After that I ASKED how to train a horse to lunge and what was involved.. and that is when I LEARNED how to lunge a horse properly which included safely.. and to never ever ever wrap a rope or line around any part of me that was attached to a 1200 lb animal with a brain the size of a walnut!! I was 13 years old and it was 1969.

Proper equipment not only allows the horse to work for you it also gives you control and helps the horse have direction. I did not have a lunging cavesson at that time.. so I ran the line thru the snaffle bit, over the poll to the bit ring on the opposite side. This meant reversing that arrangement to reverse the circle. I used side reins (loose at first) and the saddle with the reins attached at the girth (because I did not have a lunging surcingle).

That horse taught me a lot... and one of those things was how to teach a horse to lunge properly! He took me to B1 Pony Club among other things.
 
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#32 ·
I agree with Usandpets, that specific equipment can be helpful but is not necessary. Elana, of course horses 'run through' bits too & I personally don't like to use a bit on a long rope either, for the extra leverage & lack of feel with it. I can't think of anything I would feel the need of a bit for, to achieve on line & I certainly don't think I lack control or confuse the horse because of using a halter.
 
#33 ·
You do have quite a serious problem here and your horse has obviously stopped having any respect for you or the whip. Remember that your body language is communicating with him all the time. In everything you do with him, stand up tall, throw your shoulders back and act completely confident and in charge.
Do not be afraid to step to the side (not back) if he approaches you on the lunge lline and give him a good smack or two (if necessary)with the whip on the shoulders or neck. You cannot allow him to get anywhere near you and you must match his aggression with your own.

No horse needs to be afraid of a whip but they do need to respect it.
This horse has now become aggressive and dangerous but also doesn't understand why you are waving that harmless "stick" at him so don't be afraid to smack him with it every time he shows any aggression towards you. The old boss mare in the pasture would punish him much more severely for this behavior! Once he respects it you probably won't even have to touch him with it again.

.

Once you get him out on the circle use the whip, voice and your body language to communicate.
One of the purposes of main purposes of the whip is to accent your cues/body language and your horse will learn to watch you. You should watch the eye and especially the ears-the ear will tip towards you when is really paying attention to you. When he starts to understand the basics try this:
-Put him in the "triangle"
- To add speed: the whip comes up and closer to his rear and your shoulders square to the rear haunches.
-To maintain the gait, slightly move whip down & back to tell him he is fine.

-To slow down or stop-lower both hands and slightly square your shoulders to his forehand. For whoa, lower both hands even more deeply.
-Stroll in a relaxed way in a small circle while lunging-don't spin in a circle or take long steps

-Use voice commands and say them long, low and clear. Horse listen to firm, low pitch voices ,not high squeaky ones. You can also use clucks for the trot and kiss noises for the canter.
-Please try not to crack the whip constantly-the horse quickly learns to ignore it and it makes you look ignorant.

-If he tries to pull away from you, do a quick hard pull (or several) not a long heavy pull. They can easily set their head and lean into a long pull but can't with the quick hard pulls.

Remember to get in the habit of ALWAYS carrying a lunge whip for your own safety.

Any horse can be feeling a little too good, cut the circle and kick you without meaning to hurt you.

As far as getting a trainer for this problem; it may not take long to fix. First the trainer needs to work with him while you watch and learn. Then you need to practice under the trainer's instruction. Don't just expect to "send the horse to the trainer" and get back a perfect horse. The patterns of both horse and owner need to be corrected for it to have any lasting value and this goes for any type of training.
 
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