Horse goes down after Saddling - Page 3 - The Horse Forum
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post #21 of 58 Old 06-05-2011, 03:22 AM
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What happens when you get on him bareback? I am asking as I want to know if it is cinch issue?
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post #22 of 58 Old 06-05-2011, 09:05 PM Thread Starter
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Still trying to get video to show differences in his trick cues and his freak outs. I guess its just something hard to explain with text.

Originally Posted by AlexS View Post
What happens when you get on him bareback? I am asking as I want to know if it is cinch issue?
Nothing. He never does this when I'm riding bareback. He only does this immediately after putting the saddle on and putting up the cinch.
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post #23 of 58 Old 06-05-2011, 09:11 PM
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I would bet money on a pinched nerve. He is defanitly in pain.

My name is now my horses on a dor not my horse sonador
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post #24 of 58 Old 06-06-2011, 09:16 AM
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My Goodness, what a mystery that is going on with Jake!! I accept that I can be wrong, but I still do think it is a bio-mechanic reaction to being cinched up either gradually or in increments. Just a suggestion to try or not, next time you cinch him up give him a kick of your leg or knee to his mid-section at about the cinch area. If he is sucking up his lungs when you tighten the cinch that will encourage him to take a breath to exhale. Oxygen deprivation will cause loss of conciousness which might be possible with Jake.
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post #25 of 58 Old 06-30-2011, 02:39 PM Thread Starter
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Myhorsesonador - I thought that too for a while, until it became inconsistent. I would think that if he was in pain, he would always be in pain. So I would have a bad ride or he would keep acting up if the saddle stayed on. Or he would do it every time I saddle up. =\

Candandy49 - I have recently watched him, and he is actually breathing while I cinch he isn't blacking out from a lack of oxygen. I would do that with my friends mare who is cinchy and acts all wonky when first saddled. Sometimes she tries to lay down but just slap her on the under side of her belly and she stops it quick. But with Jake it might push him into to flipping over.

On another note I got another video that shows a little bit more. I am provoking him into doing it here. I know his mood was good when I saddled and that he wasn't going to have a major freak out. I also show that his bowing, stretching his legs, picking up his legs and backing up are not associated with this problem.

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post #26 of 58 Old 06-30-2011, 03:27 PM
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ok a couple of question, Have you tried girthing him up with a bareback pad? and or using differnt size, wider or smaller girths?

i've watch the video several time, and noticed he seems fine right after you grith him, but when you walk to his head to strech his left front leg, he puts his ears back. makes me think he's either resentful of having his leg stretched or maybe there is a comfort issue with that leg.

It doesnt nessasserliy have to be pain. at least in my own personal case when i've have a pinched nerve in my shoulder it feels more like a tingling and travels for quite a ways, normally down my arm and into my back.

Given the info (from a massage therapist who did equine and people) that horses are not that differnt in structor than us, you might have his shoulder evualated. have your equine chiropractor or I'd really recommend an equine masage therapsit look at him,

What I also noticed was his hind legs. he seems to want one of them "resting" the majority of the time, so when you pick up his front leg, he essecianly is only standing on 2 legs. which would of course throw him off balance. I'd have the Therapist or chiropractor or even vet check out his hips and stiffles.

You said a while back he was 20 years old, is he on joint supplements?

It could also verywell be a way of him saying "hey i dont really want to do this today"(getting out of work)
IMO: there where several times that he "was going down" that he seemed to catch himself and try to stay standing,but again it is very hard to say what is going on inside the horse.

I Hope i've shed some light or given you something differnt to think about. I am curious, if you just walk him off after saddling(w/o streching his legs) what happens?
Keep us posted! Hope you find a fix!
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post #27 of 58 Old 06-30-2011, 03:46 PM Thread Starter
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Jwells84 - Let see if I can get all the questions, you did have a lot.

Bareback pad - He didn't seem to mind, got a little stiff but didn't make any inclination to wanting to go down.

Girths - I have been trying to borrow a few different kinds of girths. So far they all have been relatively the same width (can't find wider ones) and have tried cotton, mohair, neoprene, and leather. All obtained the same results.

The leg/ear thing - Hmm thats not something I have thought about. He has always very clear on showing his expressions with his ears. When he is thinking he tends to have them back, and when he relaxes he puts them on me. He also tries his best to keep at least one ear on me at all times. I will have to watch it and see if he is continuous with it. When he is in a calmer mood like he is in this video, he will only go down if I lift a leg up. When he is more stressed, even doing things like backing up makes him loose balance and fall over. He RUNS backwards, gets his back legs far too underneath himself, sits and rolls over. During these times I have done nothing with his legs. Plus he was getting grumpy with being messed around with this much. I had several minutes trying to get something on video, lol so a lot of saddleing, unsaddling backing up going forward listing his legs. I was pestering him.

Resting hind leg - He does that, which counts for being off balance. If he has just been cinched, he won't put that leg down (it changes from left to right leg he rests on) and stays unbalanced. While every other time he will balance himself out just fine, and will put weight on that leg. He has had his back and hips checked out and given the clear.

Joint Fluid - Yup, 15ml a day.

Getting out of work - On days like this it could be. But the other times when he completely panics? There's a difference. For all I know his complete freak outs could be a little different than him trying to lay down while being saddled....idk. I've had a few people suggest that it may just be some mental problem as well, a long with a few other things that are his personality.

There are some things to think about. Thank you =) Honestly I don't think there is a way to fix this, just working around it.
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post #28 of 58 Old 06-30-2011, 04:31 PM
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Have you run a mineral panel on him?

Originally I thought you might be referring to something sometimes called "cold backed", which seems to be a disputed issue with some people believing it to be a physical reaction to the saddle, and some believing it to be behavioral.

Watching your videos , I've changed my mind a little, partly because i have the understanding that this is a new behavior for him, but wondering if it might be mineral related, specifically selenium. I have seen so many presentations of deficiency,from rehabbing horses, so I've stopped being surprised when it pops up as an issue for odd behaviors... it almost always seems to be the last thing people think of.

I know with our senior, as he aged, we had to increase his mineral supplement because he was no longer absorbing it the same way as he had when he was younger.

Selenium deficency is known to cause : lethargy, hypersensitivity to touch or pressure, stiffness, achyness, mood changes (among other things)

There is also a major artery? (or vein, I can never remember) which runs through the girth area. In some horses, it can cause a fainting effect if the girth is too tight, or two narrow.

I have a young mare with this issue, but she is much better in a fluffy girth (or WIDE string cinch if we're going western). She actually does something similar to your gelding, but, not nearly as gradual. (which might be that she is pretty green, and your boy has been well trained)

Do those are my thoughts, for what they are worth.
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post #29 of 58 Old 06-30-2011, 05:16 PM
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sorry for all the questions,but those where the things that poped up in my head as i watched the video. I do agree with you that his Panic is not to do with his wanting getting out of work.

Since he is an older horse, this issue could be a number of things, from something that happened in past ( many years ago) to a slight ailement that only gives him trouble now an then.Im glad that he has an owner like you who wants to try to help him and not just ship him off to a sale barn.

Something I'd look for is when you ride him, is he unusually rough?
Not want to canter on his Left lead?
I say left becuase that seemed to be the leg he had the worst problem with in the video.

The fact that he didnt mind the bareback pad,but did get a little stiff, makes me think there is something not lining up right somewhere( his shoulder,whithers,who knows) but if it is nerves or nerve damage even it will not show up on xray ultrasound. and of corse it probly isnt fixable. unless it is just pinched and you can "unpinch it"

Glad to hear his back and hips checked out ok! thats one less piece to the puzzle!
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post #30 of 58 Old 06-30-2011, 05:56 PM
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OP has this horse done any roping?
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