Horse has no respect! Please advice needed! - Page 2 - The Horse Forum
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post #11 of 16 Old 07-01-2012, 03:58 AM
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You need to be able to send him backwards without any physical pressure, but more like an invisible wall pushing him away.

Have you tried working with him in a halter and leadrope (safely) asking him to back up by standing next to him and spinning the rope clockwise. If he goes forward, he hits his nose, so he can go backwards.

Just be careful.

"Strength is the ability to use a muscle without tension"
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post #12 of 16 Old 07-01-2012, 04:07 AM
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Originally Posted by katiegirl View Post
2. He will not let you halter him without a chase. He turns his butt to me and runs away when he sees me with the halter. I either have to hope he will get tired or catch him when hes eating to halter him.
If he turns his butt at you, you need to chase him away, and make him run until he looks at you (then relax your body, and take a step back). Make the wrong thing hard by putting pressure on him, and the right thing easy by taking pressure off. When he is listening to you, disengage his hind quarters and ask him to come to you. do no walk up to him to put the halter on, it is his job to approach you. When you halter him, reward him by giving him some time to rest and just hanging out and give him a scratch.

BTW I would never go near a horse while it is eating, because this actually develops leadership issues. In the herd, the horses only get to eat when the leader deems it safe to do so and is eating him/herself. As a human, if you let him eat while you are haltering/brushing/untacking him, you are not being a leader because you are allowing him to be disrespectful to you. If you watch a herd of horses, you will notice that when the leader approaches a horse, that horse will always stop whatever it is doing and listen to the leaders cues.

So when you are tacking up, if your horse is eating grass from the ground, stomp your feet and demand him to lift his head up. Eating is for his own private time, and time with you is time with his leader.
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post #13 of 16 Old 07-01-2012, 04:14 AM
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Originally Posted by katiegirl View Post
3. He does not lead easily. Sometimes he will follow nicely, but other times he will stand still and you have to continuely jerk on the lead rope to get him to go foward.
When he stops, the key is to push rather than pull. Step beside him, lock your right arm (with the leadrope) in front or you and the horse. Keep the tail of the leadrope in your left arm. 2. Walk forward (putting steady pressure into his halter). 2. Lean into your arm (increase the pressure). 3. Swing the leadrope in your left arm. 4. Whack him on the bum/flanks with the tail of the leadrope (this is the promise level, so it needs to be hard enought to get a response).

When he moves, reward by dropping your arm and all pressure, and starting to lead him normally (horse behind you, loose leadrope).
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post #14 of 16 Old 07-01-2012, 04:45 AM
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Originally Posted by katiegirl View Post
5. When I started to lunge him, he would turn into me constantly! I would tap his inside leg and when it went over, I would drive his hind foward. That worked to get him to lunge for a little but now, he pushes me out of the way with his head when I go to tap his leg, or circles around me so I can't tap his leg.
What kid of line are you using? I would use a rope halter and a thick and heavy yachting rope line. With this, you have more control of the rope and his head, and it is harder to ignore.

With a rope like this, you can push him out from a distance by wiggling the rope in ingreasingly large waves. It wont hit him but it looks scary enough for most horses to get the message.

When he comes into your space, you need to push him out with equal force that he is invading your space. it sounds like he is being fairly agressive and threathening, and that he has figured out that you will only hit him on the feet? When you say that he is pushing you with his head, do you mean that he is actually almost on top of you?

That is very unsafe, and you will need to get a lot toughter on him. Keep him at the end of the line, and take any slack in the line as a sign that he is invading your space, and push him out until he is at the end of the line again. I would also invest in a longer whip, so that you have adequate reach.

It is OK to give him a whack elsewhere than just the legs. If he is running at you even after you ahve wiggled the rope, I would do the following:

1. Run towards him with a predator look (usually this in itself is enough because they are used to the lunger being fairly still. tense your body, crouch down slightly and stare him down)
2. Run and whack the ground directly in between you, making a hard sound
3. Smack his legs
4. smack his chest
5. smack the leadrope right under his chin
6. smack his nose.

Do not wait for him to get into your space but meet him halfway, this shows him that your boundary ends only at the end of the leadrope, and that you are not going to let him disrespect you. This is a situation where you cant afford to loose, and therefore you have to be tough even though it feels nasty. if you let him walk into you today, tomorrow he might run over you and kill you. As I mentioned earlier, if he rears, whack his stomach and make him back up by any means.

Originally Posted by katiegirl View Post
5. With her other horses all it's takes is a jerk on the halter for them to stop, but that doesn't phase him. When I really crack down on him, he'll walk VERY slowly in a circle and then just turn his butt towards me and walks off, pulling the lunging line right out of my hands. I jerk the rope hard when he does his and he spins around, head very high, and walks towards me. Then we start all over again. This happened 20-30 times last night, jerk the leadrope or making him backup does not work.

With a heavy yachting rope line, you can stop the horse by wiggling the rope up and down in increasingly larger waves (promise level: rope hits the horse on the nose).

Does he know how to yield his hind quarters? If he knows it, an even better way to stop is to diengage his hindquarters (yield them out so he faces you) while putting the hand that holds the line up so that he stops and does not walk in. If he starts walking in, wiggle the line sideways in ingreasingly large waves. The movement is sideways because you want him to back up staight, so you are speaking to both sides.
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post #15 of 16 Old 07-01-2012, 04:49 AM
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Whoops, after writing half a novel I realised that Palominolover already gave some of the same advice in her first post.
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post #16 of 16 Old 07-01-2012, 11:48 AM
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I teach a horse to back by running hand down face to where noseband falls, and lightly pushing nose to chest, increasing pressure as needed. On extremely rare occasions, or with horse that has been allowed to ignore cues, I will take thumbnail and press into chest, as I rock nose/head towards chest, while saying "Back".

This sets horse up to use himself when backing, as he is already coming off his front end. I keep pressure as light as I can to get the movement I want. And helps when horse is being ridden too, as knows that he is to halt forward movement.

And when leading horse, if he plants himself, you need to untrack him, by moving first to one side and then the other to get him to have to shift his feet. And don't look at him, or get into a strength battle, as you will lose. You have to outwit him.

For haltering, make it not so much fun, and make him work. Also, if he turns butt to you, tear it up with a lash whip, or even a long switch.

For lunging, work on making horse responsive to your cues by making him move hind end and front end away from you, and to you. Keeping end of lead in hand, move to one side, by his side and tap lightly on rear, or shoulder, or side and tell him to "move over" as you do the tap. Tip head slightly to you for his rear movement, as that sets him up to do it.

You can go from there to merely tapping air with finger, and telling horse to move over. It doesn't take very long for them to learn it, if done consistently, maybe a week, or two with a dumber or more stubborn horse. Eventually you can just tap air and horse will move over.

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