Horse trainer/owner of the year award goes too... - Page 3
 
 

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Horse trainer/owner of the year award goes too...

This is a discussion on Horse trainer/owner of the year award goes too... within the Horse Training forums, part of the Training Horses category

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        04-28-2013, 11:17 AM
      #21
    Started
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TBforever    
    i might be the only one, but I don't see what is wrong with the training, I didnt watch all off the riding one but from what I saw I didnt see anything that's classed as abuse
    The main problem with the training is that she is not being clear to the horse. He has to guess at what she wants. She does try to reward him several times, but the rewards are not effective. There are times she (inadvertently) rewards him for the wrong thing, such as when she stopped hitting him with the whip after he kicked at her.

    As far as the riding video, she never lets the horse relax. From the time she gets on to the time she gets off, she is pulling on his face. You can tell by the horse's body language that he doesn't understand what she wants, and as the ride goes along, he gets more and more frustrated. This is evident when he rears and when he reaches around and bites her leg.

    In all of the lounging videos, she is in danger of getting hurt. The free lounging video is where it seems like she's training him to kick at her. And if you listen to the audio, it sounds like she meant to hit him with the whip at least once. The videos where she's lounging on a line, her legs could easily get tangled in the line, and if that horse bolted, she'd be in a world of hurt.

    If she got some education, she could probably do some decent work. Learning how and when to EFFECTIVELY reward the horse is the most important thing she needs to learn.
         
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        04-28-2013, 11:21 AM
      #22
    Green Broke
    He looks like such a sweet, willing , happy horse, this just makes me crazy.
    She just arbetrarily hits him and the horse has no idea why.
    One time she hits on the rump, next on the shoulder, on the leg, the belly, the neck, and God forbid the face.
    She has no idea of pressure and release. She isn't even paying attention, and she expects that horse to. Also that horse was probably just taken out of his stall, and given no time to play around and explore the new ring, smell some poop or check out that wet spot.
    To the poster that said nothing is wrong with this style of training... Look again, after you see someone who knows what they are doing.

    So many things were just wrong!
         
        04-28-2013, 03:13 PM
      #23
    Super Moderator
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TBforever    
    i might be the only one, but I don't see what is wrong with the training, I didnt watch all off the riding one but from what I saw I didnt see anything that's classed as abuse

    Dear, I hate to say it, but EVERYTHING about what is shown here is wrong. It is an example of a good way to ruin a good horse. I can hardly bear to watch it.

    We mods are discussing the elegibility of this thread. We don't allow bashing of trainers. However, I feel there is a difference between discussiong METHOD and critiquing problems, versus bashing a PERSON.

    For the time being, if you have comments , could you please keep them to a discussion of the training methods here. What you see as incorrect/correct, and how to do it better? There is a learning opportunity here, in my opinion, but please do not turn it into a hate fest.

    Caroline
    Wallaby, Lockwood and DimSum like this.
         
        04-28-2013, 03:17 PM
      #24
    Super Moderator
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TBforever    
    depends on horse personality, sure 1 that is very dominate could do with training liker hers,a soft,nervous scared horse no I wouldnt

    This training would turn a dominant horse into a mean horse, a dangerous horse.
         
        04-28-2013, 03:28 PM
      #25
    Super Moderator
    I also think we should see videos of this because its a perfect example of why there are so many lovely horses ending up in slaughter yards and why Forums like this one are overflowing with people who've bought a pretty horse and then can't do a thing with it -
    Well this lady is one of the causes folks
    That poor horse has been given no clear direction, it doesn't have a clue whats being asked off it then it gets whipped at and treated like crap because of it. She's using lunging as a a means to just wear the horse out not educate it
    All I can say is - Watch and learn how not to do it - unless you want to end up with a ruined horse
    COWCHICK77 likes this.
         
        04-28-2013, 03:32 PM
      #26
    Green Broke
    I only watched the first video. It's all I could stomach. That isn't training, it's terrorizing a horse until all it wants is to escape. Once the horse is in that frame of mind, it won't learn anything. In the very first lap around, he pauses at the wet spot because it startled him, and she whacked him across the butt with the whip. No warning, no building of pressure, just WHAM. And then it just goes downhill from there. She is swinging the whip around with both hands as hard as she can, making contact as MUCH as she can, for no reason, and the horse ends up in panic mode, kicking out as a defense. And she acts as though its a joke. No, there is definitely no training happening here.
    nvr2many and Sereno like this.
         
        04-28-2013, 03:33 PM
      #27
    Super Moderator
    Ok, so I get to add my critique. I am not going to go back and watch the videos and pick out details. I haven't the time. But, the horse is driven to a kind of madness because the trainer gives him NOWHERE to have relief from the pressure. In the round pen , the pressure is applied pretty randomly, never letting the horse just go forward, once told to. She keeps getting in front of the horse, so telling it to go forward, but then blocking him from doing what she told him to do, then punishing him with the whip when he slows or suddenly turns. The horse cannot figure out what the trainer wants,so he gets more and more revved up. He is whipped even when he is doing what he thinks she wants him to do, thus he kicks out at her.

    She corrected him with the whip to his face and chest when he got too close, in the last video, but she herself pulled him up onto her. She should give him a bit more line, send him away from her, either with a wiggle of the line or with body language, or lastly, with vibrating the whip (not hitting). Sent him away and have him stand off from her, and when he does, reward him with some rest from the pressure.

    There needs to be a clear distinction between when the handler is asking for something, and when the horse is enjoying the reward for complying. This trainer completely forgets to reward the horse. The horse is desperate for a place to find relief. If she never offers this, the horse will become so desperate, kind of "hopeless", that it will strike out and become aggressive , or mentally shut down.

    It's as if a mother tried to parent her children by carrying around a bull horn and shouting at them full blast, non'stop. Soon enough, the kids will be numbed or crazed, or both.
    aforred likes this.
         
        04-28-2013, 03:49 PM
      #28
    Banned
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by apachiedragon    
    I only watched the first video. It's all I could stomach. That isn't training, it's terrorizing a horse until all it wants is to escape. Once the horse is in that frame of mind, it won't learn anything. In the very first lap around, he pauses at the wet spot because it startled him, and she whacked him across the butt with the whip. No warning, no building of pressure, just WHAM. And then it just goes downhill from there. She is swinging the whip around with both hands as hard as she can, making contact as MUCH as she can, for no reason, and the horse ends up in panic mode, kicking out as a defense. And she acts as though its a joke. No, there is definitely no training happening here.
    I could not watch more then half of the first one either and don't need to see anymore. This person has NO concept of working with a horse. I see that one of our MODs has posted and agrees.

    The horse will be/is ruined. So sad.
         
        04-28-2013, 04:01 PM
      #29
    Banned
    The example of 'training' was mindless and detached on behalf of the 'trainer'....therefore a very detached mindless horse - a classic case of you get out what you put in. Meh.
         
        04-28-2013, 05:53 PM
      #30
    Showing
    If this is a horse she doesn't know then by her keeping him bent and yielding his hindquarters keeps him from bucking. This is how to diffuse it while the horse may be thinking about it. She doesn't know if he will suddenly explode if she allows him more rein. It can happen in a flash. The goal is to get thro the ride with no bucking.
         

    Tags
    abuse, bad, stupid, training

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