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Horse trainer/owner of the year award goes too...

This is a discussion on Horse trainer/owner of the year award goes too... within the Horse Training forums, part of the Training Horses category

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        04-28-2013, 07:24 PM
      #31
    Super Moderator
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Saddlebag    
    If this is a horse she doesn't know then by her keeping him bent and yielding his hindquarters keeps him from bucking. This is how to diffuse it while the horse may be thinking about it. She doesn't know if he will suddenly explode if she allows him more rein. It can happen in a flash. The goal is to get thro the ride with no bucking.
    you mean the riding video, right? That was the least ugly of the videos. Yes, she has it circling to prevent that, but really, if she has that much trouble, she shouldn't be mounting up . It barely stood still for her to mount, and when it did, you could see that it had a lot of anxiety stuffed down inside. A good trainer will see that and say, "that's our sticky spot, we work on this until it's GOOD. Then we quit for the day. "
    You don't get on a horse that is that stuffed down inside, and then say, well, i'll just keep him cranked around in a circle the whole time since he might buck on me.

    Again, even if the hrose didn't have the anxiety shown at mount up, if you circle a horse like that, you must allow them a reward; a place to go to when they've done the right thing. If they have that, they will soon seek out that place and they'll start WANTING to do the right thing. Right now, the horse is treated the same whether he complies or doesnt. So tell me why he should comply?
    Wallaby and nvr2many like this.
         
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        04-28-2013, 07:38 PM
      #32
    Green Broke
    I agree, tiny. If you never give a horse an out for doing well, sooner or later he is going to MAKE an out, and usually the handler will be on the loosing end of that battle. You don't push until you get an explosion just to see how far you can go.

    That horse is a trainwreck waiting to happen because the handlers have pushed him to that point. I am glad to see she's trying to sell him (his ad was in another thread), but at this point, he's quite possibly damaged enough that an everyday horse owner shouldn't try to take him on, and an experienced trainer likely won't want to clean up the mess, so where does that leave the poor horse? Hopefully he doesn't slip through the cracks, he's a beautiful boy.
    tinyliny likes this.
         
        04-28-2013, 08:36 PM
      #33
    Weanling
    Ive given miover a pop with the whip on the butt, but he also threatens to charge, should I just let him charge me? If its so wrong to to hit them with the whip?


    Really I don't see why you put a video on here and have people diss these people, who are we to judge? I know for sure that I am not perfect,i know I've made mistakes.

    But to share a video that is not urs and have people on another site critising them without them here to defend themselves I just don't think its right, and its stuff like this that's going to be arguments, over circumstances we don't know, I just don't find this constructive on a suportive horse forum
         
        04-28-2013, 08:55 PM
      #34
    Super Moderator
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TBforever    
    ive given miover a pop with the whip on the butt, but he also threatens to charge, should I just let him charge me? If its so wrong to to hit them with the whip?


    Really I don't see why you put a video on here and have people diss these people, who are we to judge? I know for sure that I am not perfect,i know I've made mistakes.

    But to share a video that is not urs and have people on another site critising them without them here to defend themselves I just don't think its right, and its stuff like this that's going to be arguments, over circumstances we don't know, I just don't find this constructive on a suportive horse forum

    First question:

    I absolutely WILL pop a horse on the rump, shoulder, or even the nose if he does something that needs that level of pressure. If he charged me, as you mention, I'd have the whip up there swinging, and he can choose to either run into the whip and get smacked, or not.
    If I asked with my body, then with a little movement from the lunge whip and neither of these got a bit of a change out of the horse, I'd put the whip down hard, on the ground first. I don't have to hit the horse to get a change. If it IS required to hit the horse to get a change, (meaning the other, lower intensity things did NOT get a change), then I will. But the instant the horse moves out, the pressure ceases.

    Pressure has to be meaningfull. It can only have meaning if it's applied, something changes , and then it's released. Horse says "Oh, so that's what gets me a reward. I'll do that the next time I feel that light pressure, 'cause I don't want to be smacked again".

    If you swing the lunge whip non stop, it has no meaning any more. It become noise. Loud noise, from which the hrose must flee in a panic, and from which there is no escape, even if he does go forward (which would normally earn a hrose a reward).

    Second point;

    This is tough to call. We allow folks to post all kinds of videos to demonstarte some kind of technique they want to teach. Remember the ones posted on your lunging thread? Those were just randomly taken off of you tube. They were being held up as examples of what to do. This is an example of what not to do.

    However, as I said, if we cannot seperate a critique of the method from a dissing of the person, then the thread cannot stay.

    As for you, on your thread, you have been very honest about your issues and your mistakes and have been willing to accept new ideas and guidance. Do you not think you are also learning something from THIS thread?

    I anyone learning anything from this thread?
    jaydee likes this.
         
        04-28-2013, 09:01 PM
      #35
    Green Broke
    Sorry TBforever, I think someone like you, would benefit from this thread the most. Someone seeing this lounging as nothing wrong with it, needs to read the posts and then go learn how lunging is correctly done, with give and take, pressure and release, asking and receiving.
    While there are several problems with this woman's lounging ability, the thing that I find the worst is the constant hitting with the whip, anywhere on the horse. The horse is going around the outside of the ring at a canter, and she just hits it again, why? If I don't know why I garantee the horse does't know why either. She just doesn't let up.
         
        04-28-2013, 09:01 PM
      #36
    Green Broke
    It cannot be all fairy tales and butterflies. If we stick our heads in the sand to the bad out there all we will get is our butts kicked! We need to learn from the bad as well as the good. IMO!
    Anyone heard of "we learn from our mistakes"? Well, this time we learn from hers. And if you do not see anything wrong with the technique then, well, there is more to learn.
    jaydee likes this.
         
        04-28-2013, 09:06 PM
      #37
    Yearling
    Hitting or popping with the whip should ONLY happen when the horse is either threatening, Charging, or kicking at the boss (person). I'm sorry but she is constantly swinging the whip at that horse when he's done nothing. He obviosuly has no idea what his surroundings are and he's looking around.
         
        04-28-2013, 09:11 PM
      #38
    Weanling
    I don't mind other people utube's being posted, but I don't put ones up that may cause arguments, and clearly putting down the person

    Maybe a tad more contructive like what not to do

    My 2nd trainer is alot harsher then this, you know what she said? There was an advert for free 11 yr old tb she said...i can take that to the dog pit and get 200$

    She also works in racing carreer so its all money, she is a fantastic trainer, is rough but good, she will not take sh*t from an ottb,and she will whip their asses if they don't do whats asked, but she also praises she doesnt whip just cos she can,, she will whip when the horse is being clearly disobedient, I've seen the outcomes of the ottb's she's re trained and they are good, she worked with miover after comming off tracks as she's ridden him on tracks and he was an a$$, but he was wrecked when other ppl wanted him being a hack to quick and never released when he done whats right, hence why im now having issues with him
    She's a rough, but great trainer. But I chose my 1st trainer for helping for a softer approach cos that's what works for me, it may take longer with him, but that's okay, im in no rush, and I don't want miover to be rushed anymore,

    2nd trainer said miover would be perfect for me, as I don't ask much, im not rough with head being down on the bit.
    2nd trainer loves horses but she wont tollerate ill mannored horses.
    But she also says, 1 hard crack with whip is better then many little ones.
    Miover loads on float really well, best of the bunch, simply because she made him very uncomfortable on ground and made being in float comfortable, but she got him first go and ever since no issues

    I've seen rough, but with great outcomes, to me these vids are not rough, maybe the whip to face was abit out there, and will lead to head shy, but other then that they are not all bad, I didnt watch them all as I got bored watching just circles whole time lol
         
        04-28-2013, 09:16 PM
      #39
    Banned
    I'm not sure if this will help or belongs here. Have you tried "sending your horse out"?

    My stallion was screwed up by the best trainers... and would charge, rear and HE wanted to be the ALPA horse. I was new and He wanted to run things. Very common with herd animals, stallion and mare. Establish the pecking order.

    In a small coral we walk around each other. My hat up so we are eye to eye and I DO NOT take my eyes off him. I'm twirling a long lead but NOT to threaten. We walk around the coral. At some point I lower my hat so we have NO eye contact. He comes forward... I let the lead out in a rolling action toward him. He leaves. He comes back and I do it again. This is not hitting, it is a rolling rope action. I walk toward him and continue doing this.... NO EYE CONTACT.

    After about an hour. I go to the end of the coral and stand still with hands and rope lowered. I raise my hat and look him in the eye.

    He walks over and lowers his head and we have now established who is the boss of this herd. I had to do this a couple of other times but it worked for us and only after that could we work together to where we are today.

    I've only seen this done 2 other times since with the same results and was glad that someone told me to try it.

    Anyone else do this?
         
        04-28-2013, 09:20 PM
      #40
    Yearling
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Sereno    
    I'm not sure if this will help or belongs here. Have you tried "sending your horse out"?

    My stallion was screwed up by the best trainers... and would charge, rear and HE wanted to be the ALPA horse. I was new and He wanted to run things. Very common with herd animals, stallion and mare. Establish the pecking order.

    In a small coral we walk around each other. My hat up so we are eye to eye and I DO NOT take my eyes off him. I'm twirling a long lead but NOT to threaten. We walk around the coral. At some point I lower my hat so we have NO eye contact. He comes forward... I let the lead out in a rolling action toward him. He leaves. He comes back and I do it again. This is not hitting, it is a rolling rope action. I walk toward him and continue doing this.... NO EYE CONTACT.

    After about an hour. I go to the end of the coral and stand still with hands and rope lowered. I raise my hat and look him in the eye.

    He walks over and lowers his head and we have now established who is the boss of this herd. I had to do this a couple of other times but it worked for us and only after that could we work together to where we are today.

    I've only seen this done 2 other times since with the same results and was glad that someone told me to try it.

    Anyone else do this?
    I had a trainer back in corpus chiristi who did this to a gelding who was a real headcase. It worked, but it took a lot of patience. I'd always go out there before a lesson and she'd be in the arena with that gelding. I admire her determination, and I admire yours. I'll keep this process in mind. It could help in the future sometime.
         

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