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How do YOU correct issues under saddle?

2K views 21 replies 14 participants last post by  natisha 
#1 ·
Trouble and I have been working under saddle, and it's been going great. We've broken out of the round pen (literally, a windstorm blew it to pieces) and have been hitting the road. He's been working off my leg nicely, etc etc.
I have some scenarios I'd like y'all to pretend you're in!
Sometimes trouble likes to test me, nothing too serious- sometimes he will walk a little too fast for my liking, or root a bit, or shake his head and look a little nasty. I correct him with a slap on the shoulder with the crop or the reins, it works for us- and that's the thing that counts. Usually just a verbal "NO" works, and we don't get as far as a swat.

My mother watched me ride, and ripped me apart about correcting him. That particular day the flies were bad and he wanted to trot up the hill. I said "WALK" in a stern voice and he walked up the hill. She freaked about how I should have yanked his head around and made him do circles, then slap him with the reins and make him lope up the hill. Now to me, that seems like it defeats the purpose. Like: he tries to trot up the hill, so he's corrected by (to him) harsh reprimanding, then he's told to do exactly what he was reprimanded for and rush up the hill? Mum used to do speed events a few years ago, and I don't think she gets that I don't need to get that loud and "in his face" anymore. When I first started ground work, yes. Now? No.

But I want to have an open mind to others training techniques so how would you correct the following, personally, on a learning, green horse
Head shaking/rooting-

Speeding up without being asked-

Crow hopping-

Let's also say these are all behavioural, all pain issues and tack fitting issues ruled out.
 
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#2 ·
it really depends on the mental state of the horse .


I tend to agree with you, not your mom. I dont' see the point of yanking him around and making him do anything. ? what will he get out of that? that you have a capricious temper and him expressing his irritation about flies make you ask him to run? but somehow that is conncected to not going too fast? no way. horse will not make that connection.


what IS wrong with trotting up the hill? why is this a BAD thing? it's easier for the horse, so most sensible. why make it 'bad'? If I CAN get a horse to stop and at least walk part way up a hill he wants to trot up, I consider it a reasonable compormise. and, if there were a real reason he must walk up, I'd enforce that. but, allowing the horse the chance to make some decisions on his own is NOT a bad thing.
 
#4 ·
what IS wrong with trotting up the hill? why is this a BAD thing? it's easier for the horse, so most sensible. why make it 'bad'? If I CAN get a horse to stop and at least walk part way up a hill he wants to trot up, I consider it a reasonable compormise. and, if there were a real reason he must walk up, I'd enforce that. but, allowing the horse the chance to make some decisions on his own is NOT a bad thing.
Good point, I've only had around 10 rides on him right now so I'm in the mindset of "only do what I ask" so he doesn't get a big ego and start fighting me. Although, I've always had a very strict hand with him and he does well. I've been starting to let him have his own "being" and make his own decisions but I don't know if we're there yet. We were also on the way home and I really don't want to enforce running home. Maybe next ride ill let him trot down the hill :lol:
 
#5 ·
But I want to have an open mind to others training techniques so how would you correct the following, personally, on a learning, green horse

Head shaking/rooting- It's inexperience with a bit and/or bridle. I'd try and focus more on moving the body and less on the hands... when I do use hands it would be smooth and more of an opening rein. Pushing the horse forward but not chasing either. They're learning, so trying to fight with the horse will not help any.

Speeding up without being asked- Again learning... guide the horse into some figure eights. Slow your own body down more and any sign the horse is trying it would be asked to do something else. Switch it up often, adding different challenges of figures in there... then when the horse is slow slow slow for as long as you want, THEN you can cue for faster.

Crow hopping- Inexperience, lack of muscle. Practice frequent transitions but don't dog the horse to boredom out of expecting perfection. Quit while it's decent.
 
#6 ·
So, does your Mom go along and ride with you, or is she walking along, giving advise? Just curious. I do not agree with her advise
So, you are out of the roundpen, but that does not mean you need to hit the trails immediately
My advise would be to ride him first in some kind of controlled setting, be it just a pasture, and get him soft in his entire body
A horse that roots, shakes head, picks up a gait un asked for, is not ready to be ridden out<JMO
I agree on getting him soft,in his entire body using legs, versus just the bit
When ahorse gets soft in his body, he will also get soft in his face and poll
Horses should not be allowed to get in the habit of either rushing up or down hills.
Yes, eventually there will be hills where you need to use judgement, and if the horse needs extra momentum, as for a very short steep part, let him use that \ummp', but do not allow a horse to automatically think he has to trot or even canter up hills.
There might be a time you wish to canter or trot up a hill, and that is fine, as long as you make that decision, and not the horse
To me, Trouble does not sound ready to be ridden out. Get him soft first, and you will have a better horse in the end
What would I have done? I would have turned him away from home, each time he tried to take control, until he got the message that the only way he was going to get home, was going at the gait you asked for, and without leaning on that bit
 
#7 ·
Seriously? You slap your horse? I don't think this is necessary since you yourself say he is doing fine. You also say the flies were bad when he was shaking his head. I don't know why people think that head shaking is a behavioral problem. Horses shake their head to get rid of flies, to be more comfortable in the bridal, or to loosen spit, It is not a behavior problem.
As for your mother, is she generally critical of you? Or just when your riding? I would have a talk with her about her goals for you and you your horse. And please don't slap your horse again.
 
#10 ·
Yes. I slap my horse. If you really want to get technical. I'm also 18, and for smilie, yeah, she was just walking along beside us. She doesn't currently have a horse because she near ruined the one she had. I'm very sceptical of my mothers advice because I've seen her have more accidents than I can count on my fingers due to rider ignorance.

Anyway. I used to use a crop to keep him at arms length when I first got him. Is that what you wanted to hear? I used to crack him GOOD when he got too close. And he's fine. It's not like I'm full out slapping him when he makes a mistake. I swat him to tell him "hey there you're not supposed to do that". Please don't start here with the "a horse shouldn't be hit in any way" train, not on this thread.
 
#9 ·
To be specific to your questions, that I pasted:


1 Speeding up without being asked-

2 Crow hopping-

Let's also say these are all behavioural, all pain issues and tack fitting issues ruled out.
I depends on situation,ground and training level of the horse. You want to slow that horse through body and mental control, and not by getting into either a fight or a pulling match-one you won't win
When ahorse speeds up un asked, there are two main techniques I use, where you stay out of the horse's mouth
On flat ground, I might stop the horse, and immediately back him hard with legs , UNTIL, the horse is giving in the poll,backed off the bit. Then, I give him slack, ask for forward, giving him the chance to do the right thing
If he is rushing towards home< i might turn him around, and make him go in the opposite direction-prince and repeat, until he gets the message that the only way he will get to go home, is by going at the gait asked for

I might turn him in a small circle, WITHOUT picking up on reins, ore= letting him break gait. This is hard work, and he will go back to a walk on his own-when he does, let him out of that circle

crowhopping= make the horse understand it is not acceptable. Shut him down immediately, maybe boot his hips around once or twice, and then allow him to do the right and easy thing
 
#12 ·
I generally ask my horses to trot uphill, it's a great muscle developer. Downhill, I insist on going slow unless it's a wide open gradual slope, then I might allow a trot if it wasn't too steep. If one wants to rush, I make them stop altogether, stand and then back uphill a few steps and then walk off on a loose rein. If the slope is wide enough to allow it, I'll also zig zag across to keep the horse walking and steering.

Crow hopping will get a bump with my heels to move them on forward. If they still want to "bunny buck" then I'd pop 'em on the hiney with my crop and gig hard with my heels. Usually a few times of that and they decide the little "bunny bucks" aren't so fun after all. Disclaimer: Some horses will take the crop pop and hard gig as a cue to go Rodeo and have a full on bucking fit, so make sure you know which way he'll take that kind of correction before you do it. Hopefully, you'll see him try to drop his head between his knees before he starts and you can get his head up and him moving forward before the hopping starts.

"Star Gazing" or trying to smell the moon, when they throw their head up to evade the bit gets ground work. I will put them in a surcingle with 1 side rein on and tighten it down to where he has to learn to drop his head to get relief, not enough to make him tuck his chin and go behind the vertical, but enough that if he tries to push his nose out or throw his head, HE bumps himself in the mouth. Once he's good going one direction, then I'll loosen or remove that side rein and install one on the opposite side and work the other direction. Once he's lunging well both directions and has taught himself to carry his head properly, then I'll go to 2 side reins and make the inside rein a little tighter than the outside one and work him on the line again. As soon as he can carry himself both directions with the 2 reins tightened about how you'd ride with your hands on them, light contact on his mouth, and he has quit fighting then I'll get on and we'll work all the same exercises both directions with me using real reins and see if he can make the transition. Throwing their nose up to get away from the bit indicates they haven't been properly taught to accept the bit so you need to go back several steps to basics. This is a particular pet peeve of mine.

Speeding up without being asked gets circles, figure 8s, serpentines, stop & back, go back the other direction (away from where you were going) for a period of time. Being jiggy, usually on the way home, is not ok with me. They have to do what I ask, when I ask it, or we do extra work until they do.
 
#13 ·
If he has only got 10 rides.....I would still not be doing a lot of straight line work. I have never had an "arena", and even though I working hard to get one, really do not want to use it much(does that make sense?...no..) saying that so you understand from where my experience comes....
Straight lines give kids a chance to think too much! I would set up a cone or two, or a bucket, and do circles of different sizes. Spirals, to teach him to move off of your leg and strengthen his inside hind. Spirals done with contact are a GREAT way to teach give to the bit and outside rein without pulling and sawing, because that 'give' actually comes FROM the hind leg, not the neck.
Figures of 8 using legs aids to change rein.

I use the hills to teach trot going UP, but teach extended walk going DOWN, because you can really encourage a swinging hind leg on the downhill.

In all of this, I use 'EASE', and shift my weight back, to slow a horse in gait, I use the gait name to change gait.
 
#14 ·
I think that if you told him walk and he listened then that is good enough, why escalate any further? If you did, then he would think that him listening to walk would be the wrong answer. As far as crow hopping, what I did was get a hold of the horses head and stay on. When it stops just continue with what I'm doing.
One of my mares would want to rush home from a trail ride so I would just turn her around and head the other way. When she slowed we would turn back. We kept doing this until she got it that we were not going to rush home. She did a lot more though, full blown temper tantrums. I actually made her back up almost all the way home one time. After that the tantrums stopped.

I honestly don't see anything wrong with a slap on the shoulder, chest or rump if it's warranted and the timing is right.
 
#16 ·
He's never offered to buck or crow hop ;) just thinking what ifs. Also timing is everything, the smack didn't come after the verbal cue or after he slowed, it came with it. Next time I'll try verbal only. My biggest, hugest peeve is running home. I had one horse that would grab the bit and run home when I was very young and he wouldn't even GO home, but run by the driveway, panic and swing around again. I want to avoid that as much as possible. Thanks for your input about your mare!
 
#15 ·
Oh yeah, I forgot about the slap with the crop thing. Yes, I have done it, found other ways that I find more effective but if you need to get his attention, why not? I am one that doesn't like to nag a horse though. I will give them a tap once, then a harder tap and then I'll slap them clear to Texas if that's what's required. Pretty soon they get over whatever is getting that strong a correction.
 
#19 ·
You always use the least possible form of correction that works because if you start out using the hardest you've got no place else to go when that fails
Apart from that all of that stuff your mother was suggesting would mostly get the horse in an over reactive state and that's not a good place to be if he was already a bit hyper
Horses need to understand and obey the basics before you head out of a confined area but if I'd had to wait for some of the horses I've had to ride over the years to be totally perfect then I'd have never have gotten them out of an arena and I find they learn more when you do get them out as they're less inclined to get bored and creative.
 
#20 ·
Haven't read anything else.

Head shaking/rooting- Ride on a longer rein but still a light feel. If they are shaking they are probably behind the leg too so focus on riding forward. Rooting I would likely slow them down as ime young horses rooting is usually a balance problem. If it's more of a bad habit I would hold their mouth and apply more leg and ask them to step into my hand more. As my trainer says, "Rooting is just a kick away from stretching".


Speeding up without being asked- Depends how green. On a very green one, I don't shut down forward movement. If they decide to trot off I will let them do several strides then ask for the walk again. Never want them to think going forwards is the wrong decision. On a more schooled one I would half halt them before they broke gait. Also depends on their intention behind breaking gait, if they are wanting to bolt forward I will be harder on them then if they just want to jig along but never go against my aids.

Crow hopping- Sit there and ride it. Get them moving forward when I can, do some flexing and circles. No point in escalating while they are already escalated. I'll growl at them if they threaten.
 
#21 ·
Wow, your mother would have had a field day with the 2 year old I saddle broke.

He took off bucking down the middle of the arena, and in the end, I patted his neck and told him good boy.

Here's the story:
He was not my horse. When I was in college, I took a semester class that was saddle breaking colts. When I was assigned my colt, he was halter broke and knew the basics of lunging. I was the first to put a saddle on him and sit on him. This story takes place on the last day of class. This was going to be my last ride on him, no matter what. We had graduated from the round pen to the big arena only a few weeks before. I had cantered on him once in the round pen, never in the arena.

Every day before I rode, I worked him in the round pen. The colts were kept in stalls (not my choice!) and were rather energetic every day. By "worked" I don't mean run in endless circles. I mean work on gait changes in response to voice commands because voice commands transfer to under saddle easily. Whenever I first asked him to canter, he would bunny hop for about a lap. I never corrected him because he was technically doing what I asked and because he was just being immature, not mean spirited. Also, he was understandably hyper. He had been in a stall for the past 23 hours. I don't believe in being nit picky with babies. I want them to get the general idea, and then I'll refine it later.

So back to our last day. For the first time, I did not lunge him before I rode. After warming up, I asked him to canter in the big arena for the first time. He just trotted faster. When we got to the corner of the arena, I asked him to slow to a walk again. When we got back around to the same side, I asked for a trot then a canter again. I still got a fast trot. Repeat a couple more times. Class was almost over, so I was just going to walk around the last lap. When we got near that side, he turned and started bunny hopping down the arena. I got my balance back, and I asked him to stop. He did.

He wasn't trying to buck me off. He got me off balance, and he could have darted out from under me. He thought I was going to ask for a canter again, and he tried to do what I wanted. I had never taught him that bunny hopping at the start of a canter was bad. He didn't know better. Finally, when I asked him to stop, he stopped. He may have missed the mark, but he was trying to do what he thought I wanted. "Good boy."

Back to the OP's story. He's young. He won't remember all his manners perfectly every time. Give a gentle correction first, then a more firm one, then get on to him. Don't let him get away with stuff that he knows he shouldn't do. Do be patient and calm. Save "getting big" for things that are really important, like safety issues.
 
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