How do you feel about sending horses off to trainers? - Page 11
   

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How do you feel about sending horses off to trainers?

This is a discussion on How do you feel about sending horses off to trainers? within the Horse Training forums, part of the Training Horses category

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        04-06-2013, 07:13 PM
      #101
    Banned
    A good trainer is worth their weight n gold......there's no way on this green earth would I ever be egotistical and pompous enough to think I could do a perfect job all on my own.......it's not easy, it's not fast and anyone who says that it is must be living in the land of Unicornia playing with their ponies.

    You either want to ride a well broke horse and ride it well - lessons for this.....or else you want to be a trainer and break horses and ride them well - clients and horses for that.
         
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        04-06-2013, 08:09 PM
      #102
    Yearling
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Palomine    
    Did she go back to War Admiral, or Oman's Desdemona Denmark, or the old Bourbon bloodlines by any chance? Those horses could hold a grudge and tell you what was what.

    Mae West was how she spelled her name, the actress that is.

    You can also tell a lot about a Saddlebred training barn by how they air up their stall horses. Very telling. And kept me from working for a few, because of that.

    As for choosing a trainer? Pay attention to rumors and don't discount them. If you hear a trainer has killed a horse, is abusive, and has questionable practices? Pay attention and don't just think it is "oh they are just jealous of that trainer." Usually there is a reason for those rumors.

    Look at how horses look in stalls, are they fat and shiny? Are stalls bedded good? Are they calm?

    Ha Ha Yeah, I see I spelled Mae West wrong. Oops! I shouldn't always be in a hurry but... I am usually multi tasking.

    That mare was Kourageous Kalu breeding. I was told by many people that she was nuts but, she wasn't. She was as sweet as a horse could ever be, she just didn't tolerate abuse, as no horse should. I never knew of a Saddlebred by the name War Admiral, just a thoroughbred. Learn something new every day.

    I have been to trainers barns where the horses all run to the back of the stall and park out. Makes me want to cry. The trainer I was talking about however, most horse were fairly calm. A few of them were jumpy and I was young and stupid enough to listen to Bull yet back then. This guy was the trainer to go to for gaiting a horse, back then. In this area that is. I had a blast riding show horses in that barn and learned to ride (or die) as he would toss me up on a horse and then out would come the fire extinguishers, whips etc.... You learn to stay on or else. When you are a kid, you think "wow! I am so lucky to have the privilage to ride a world champion horses even if it is risking your life."

    Other things to pay attention to with trainers is the other clients. How is this person to them? How are THEY to their horses. I am sure we could all tell horror stories. It is so much better to learn through others mistakes then make them yourself. In my case, my horse was fine afterward, but he was quite sore for some time. Many horses don't fare so well in the hands of those types.
    Palomine likes this.
         
        04-06-2013, 08:23 PM
      #103
    Green Broke
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by oh vair oh    
    And, on the flipside, I have worked under the table for a few big name trainers in the stock horse world. It's a very different world of "sending to the trainers" for show horses. Especially when owners don't even live in the same state as their horses in training. There is so much shady stuff that goes on when you are a customer, that your horse is not really personally invested in the trainer as far as making it win a class goes. You have to be really careful. I avoid BNTs like the plague. If I absolutely had to send my horse to someone, I would choose a small trainer with good moral standing and a few loyal clientele. Bigger isn't always better.
    I agree that bigger is not always better.
    But I am curious what you consider shady?
         
        04-06-2013, 08:31 PM
      #104
    Trained
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by amberly    
    I think that the owner should learn why the horse is doing something and try to fix it. There is only a few things - one of them is that you are either asking the question wrong or you are asking the wrong question. The horse may not understand. So I believe it's the owners job to figure this out on their own, rather than send their horse off to a trainer and have it come back without your knowledge on how to prevent it from happening again and if it does happen again, they need to know how to fix it. In my opinion, it just isn't a good source. The best source is yourself. YOU need to learn what the problem is and fix it yourself. Maybe look up some videos you like - like on Buck Brannaman. I like Buck the best and I follow some of his techniques.





    I do believe the horse is a reflection of your soul. How you have treated it and how you have taught it and cared for the horse will show. If he is badly trained by you, it shows. You can sometimes tell when a horse knows everything and the rider doesn't. Like I have heard of when someone sent their horse to a trainer with the show course so the horse will know exactly how to do it. The rider doesn't know anything because He wasn't there when it was trained, he doesn't know very much about horses because he let the trainer do it all.(This doesn't go for everyone, of course.) Well, the judges changed the course and the girl got in and the horse was going through the original course. She didn't know how to fix it or anything. That was showing how inexperienced she was and that the horse really and truly wasn't hers. (with training and knowledge and such.)


    My opinion on trainers is, just don't do it. You aren't always there to learn what is going on or how to signal the horse correctly. Even if the trainer told you how to do it, you would need that trainer there to show you and walk you through it. So me, I just think it's best to wokr your own horse. It's really not all that hard. I mean yes it is, but it's not like it's impossible, because 99% of the time it's not.
    This is the biggest heap of hogwash I have seen in a long time. My horse is the reflection of the dumba$$ who owned him as a 2 yr old. She made excuses for him, let him bolt, kick, etc, and he is now 7, I have had him 3 yrs and he is still testing. He WAS badly trained, but, after thousands of dollars spent on QUALIIFIED trainers who also taught me-he is much improved. And, just FYI-I trained my previous horse, so it is not that I don't know how......I know enough to know when it is better left to someone else.

    You are incredibly naive if you think that the average owner can train their own horse. It is a recipe for disaster, IMO. I would bet, that you have little to no real ownership experience, compared with those of us who have owned and ridden many.
         
        04-06-2013, 08:38 PM
      #105
    Started
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by COWCHICK77    
    I agree that bigger is not always better.
    But I am curious what you consider shady?
    The fact that I was under the table, number one. Horses that get abscesses and then are miraculously sound the day before the show. Helping give horses questionable injections before they go in a class. Longing the horses for an hour before the clients arrive. Putting shoes on yearlings. Tying the horses high or to their saddle for long periods of time. Caring for the horses that have had their tails cut or de-nerved. Just little things like that start to add up and make me go "hmmm..." and that probably didn't cover what happens when I wasn't around, and I wasn't around any of them for long.
         
        04-06-2013, 10:12 PM
      #106
    Green Broke
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by oh vair oh    
    The fact that I was under the table, number one. Horses that get abscesses and then are miraculously sound the day before the show. Helping give horses questionable injections before they go in a class. Longing the horses for an hour before the clients arrive. Putting shoes on yearlings. Tying the horses high or to their saddle for long periods of time. Caring for the horses that have had their tails cut or de-nerved. Just little things like that start to add up and make me go "hmmm..." and that probably didn't cover what happens when I wasn't around, and I wasn't around any of them for long.

    I have yet to work for a trainer that I was legitimately paid. I was always paid under the table.
    But I can say that was lucky enough to not have to witness the practices you described, trainer big time or small. That's a shame.
         
        04-06-2013, 10:54 PM
      #107
    Yearling
    I think the best way to break this whole thing down is to say that there is nothing wrong with training your horse yourself/ wanting to be very involved, sending them off to a trainer and not seeing them at all until they come back, and all the grey areas between. Everyone may have their own opinions and preferences, which you are entitled to, but in the end they are still preferences and opinions.
    What it comes down to is the individual horse and person. Some people are not equipped to train a horse at all, maybe because of age, physical conditions, lack of knowledge, plain disinterest, etc. Some might be willing to learn with their horses, some might just want a nice horse to ride out on and have no interest whatsoever in learning how to deal with a problem. Trainers are here for a reason, to train horses. Some want to train riders, too, some just want to deal with the horses. But there is nothing wrong with utilizing a trainer's abilities, whether it's because you are solely interested in the product of the training or because you're interested in the process.
    Personally, I have seen plenty of people form strong bonds with horses that they bought already trained. There's much, much more to bonding than just teaching them to do something like accept a bit and do a leg yield, although it definitely can help for some horses and some riders. My best friend bought a teenaged arabian gelding from a trail riding business because she fell in love with him- she had nothing to do with his training, but they have an incredible bond. He was a bit mangy and indifferent when she first got him, but after being in her care for a while, he literally blossomed into a sassy, joyful little horse who loves his job and his human. I'm positive it's because he was allowed to bond with one person. She also has a young mare who her family bred and raised and who she trained/ has ridden all the mare's life, and they also have a bond. I have seen trainers who did not bond with their horses at all, keeping their relationship 110% business. No bond, no love, just respect, and that was all they needed.
    I am of the personal opinion that if you can be involved in the training of your horse, even if it's just checking on them once a week/ calling the trainer for a quick report, do it. My arabian is 6 years old, I have had him for 4 years, and is only just getting kicked into gear, because I refused to settle for anything less than a trainer who would teach me to teach him. I'm very interested in the process and even in becoming a trainer some day, so I was pretty firm on that. A lot of people would have just sent him off to a trainer for a month or two and gotten it over with, and I don't think that would have been the wrong thing to do, I just didn't want to.
    I can understand if someone was showing at a high level and just wanted to get a trained horse to work with, just like I can understand how someone might want to have a sane, trained trail horse so that they could enjoy their riding. It's all preference and opinion.
    I understand what you're trying to say, OP, or at least now I really do- as it has been pointed out, your beginning to this thread was kind of fuzzy. I am not saying that you are wrong, either, and I don't think anyone else here is trying to beat you down, despite the defensive responses... And of course, everything I've said in my little essay here is totally my opinion and I don't expect anyone else to share it. This is a good thread, though. I'm glad you made it.
    And so, my little book ends. Lol. Sorry for that.
    boots likes this.
         
        04-07-2013, 09:14 AM
      #108
    Weanling
    I would never send my horse to a trainer. I would, however, work with a trainer to help me learn how to work with my horse and solve any problems I have. I can't stand when people don't do anything with their horse except ride at shows. The most fun part about owning horses is bonding with them and watching them progress and knowing you had a hand in training the horse.
         
        04-07-2013, 10:24 AM
      #109
    Trained
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by eeo11horse    
    I would never send my horse to a trainer. I would, however, work with a trainer to help me learn how to work with my horse and solve any problems I have. I can't stand when people don't do anything with their horse except ride at shows. The most fun part about owning horses is bonding with them and watching them progress and knowing you had a hand in training the horse.
    You do realize that most people who send their horse to a trainer do actually ride it, and some don't even show? Sending it to a trainer has nothing to do "bonding" or watching them grow. The trainers I have had my guy with offered him growth far beyond my abilities. I have many reasons for sending my horse to a trainer, one of which is someone else riding him. I think it is a huge mistake for a horse-or rider-for that matter, to limit their abilities to one horse or rider. I also like to watch someone else ride him sometimes.

    Never say "Never". You may have not met the horse yet who offers you challenges you cannot meet.
         
        04-07-2013, 12:18 PM
      #110
    Started
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Palomine    
    first it was he, then she? And also have problem with you saying you heard that judge changed course? If this was H/J class, those jumps are set up in advance and the riders are out there walking that course, so they can stride it off.
    Sorry if I kept changing that, I always mix up when I type 'he' and 'she.' The rider was a 'she.' This is a 4-H western class. It's not jumping and it's not trail. There is a paper that shows were you trot, walk, lope, turn around, back up, or whatever.

    Quote:
    And someone who is not experienced with horses, and by that I mean they either never have owned any, or only owned a couple and those are only ones they have worked with, will quickly find themselves in trouble with a hard headed horse, a cold backed one, or a mean one.
    Maybe the horse wasn't hard-headed or rough. I don't know for sure. But the gal always had her horse trained for the shows. She didn't know much, that's for sure.

    Quote:
    Reflection of your soul? Oh, please.

    Obvious how little you really know about any of this.
    I know more than my mother in most ways. Just ask her, she said it herself a few days ago when we were trying out a new horse.

    If you train or work with the horse the most, it will reflect your soul to you and to others.
    Say I was trying out someone's horse. The horse kept rearing and doing it's own thing. It didn't step over correctly and it jumped every time you go to pet his shoulder. That tells me that the person who worked with the horse the most did not train it well and does not have enough pride or care in the horse to teach and treat it right. Horses do relfect your soul. And I believe they do.
         

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