How do you start to train a young green horse flying lead changes?
 
 

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How do you start to train a young green horse flying lead changes?

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  • Starting a green young horse
  • Training a young horse flying changes

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    02-09-2012, 03:29 PM
  #1
Green Broke
How do you start to train a young green horse flying lead changes?

I am just wondering. Would love for someone to explain this to me as Oliver will be learning this somtime this year :)

My trainer and I have just set up goals for this year with his training and this was in the list of goals, haven't had time to talk to her about it further but any help would be great :)
     
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    02-09-2012, 03:37 PM
  #2
Trained
Well it depends on what kind of changes you want. For correct flying changes, it is advisable to have the horse working in collection, comfortable in lateral movements and counter canter, and able to easily perform simple changes through the walk while remaining straight and on the aids. From there it is a matter of finding exercises that set the horse up for success in doing a flying change on the aid and together front and behind. This is a matter of knowing your horse and having good timing. With correct development it should take about a year before you have solid, dependable changes.
If you want lead swaps then putting a pole in the center if the ring is standard protocol I think...

To develop correct changes requires a good foundation, solid training principles and program, and time. The quality of the canter and response to the aids is paramount, the change is secondary.

Good luck!
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    02-09-2012, 03:45 PM
  #3
Trained
Quote:
Originally Posted by ~*~anebel~*~    
Well it depends on what kind of changes you want. For correct flying changes, it is advisable to have the horse working in collection, comfortable in lateral movements and counter canter, and able to easily perform simple changes through the walk while remaining straight and on the aids. From there it is a matter of finding exercises that set the horse up for success in doing a flying change on the aid and together front and behind. This is a matter of knowing your horse and having good timing. With correct development it should take about a year before you have solid, dependable changes.
If you want lead swaps then putting a pole in the center if the ring is standard protocol I think...

To develop correct changes requires a good foundation, solid training principles and program, and time. The quality of the canter and response to the aids is paramount, the change is secondary.

Good luck!
Posted via Mobile Device
I was going to respond to this thread but I don't think I'll bother now. Just do this^^^.
     
    02-09-2012, 04:05 PM
  #4
Green Broke
Thank you annabell! That really helped!! We haven't started counter canter yet but I think that is soon to come! We have been working on shoulder in, haunches in, leg yields at walk and trot whew its alot of work! Now that my boy is forward again I'm feeling better just thinking about when the time comes to start really asking that if him!

I will have to get some video of us and have people here critique us. I was really able to feel some of the movements last week in my lesson for the first time! It was an amazing feeling! Before I had to push him forward or he would just stop now I'm having to help him come back be pataint and understand what I'm asking! Got to love how the young horses brain changes so much! But I saw a little light bulb go on when I felt the correct few steps last weekend! Yay!
     
    02-11-2012, 09:15 AM
  #5
Yearling
:)...just what anebel said. The idea is balance and impulsion when teaching the flying change. If you are missing either, the tendency is to get the front change but not the back. In doing a nearly immediate simple change from the trot some horses get so good at anticipating that they learn the flying change on their own..love those ones :) For the rest, the pole gives them a momentary "jump" where you can reverse your aid and shift your weight slightly and hopefully get them to land on the correct new lead.
     
    02-11-2012, 03:08 PM
  #6
Trained
Actually, tlkng1, you don't agree with me at all!!
Teaching the horse to "skip" leads or "swap" by doing fewer and fewer strides of trot in a simple change through trot will not teach correct changes and more often than not you will end up with a rushed horse that is on the forehand.
It is important to perform all movements correctly, always. This means the simple change through trot should always be performed with 3-4 strides of trot (more on a green horse), and the simple change (a true simple change, through walk) always with 3-4 steps of walk (more with a green horse). The important thing to remember in any kind of simple change is that there are two distinct transitions and three distinct gaits. As riders we have to focus on maintaining the balance, the quality of the gaits, the quality of the transitions and THEN worry about the change as a whole. If you don't have a good canter coming into the change, then don't even bother with the first transition! If you don't have a good canter-trot (or canter-walk) transition, don't even bother continuing in the change, etc..
As well, putting a pole on the ground will teach the horse to change one stride late behind, flat and imbalanced - on the forehand. We call these "lead swaps", not flying changes as they are not correct.

A correct flying change is taught through the use of exercises, body control, timing and feel. The quality of the canter is paramount and must never be sacrificed by rushing the horse through a simple change or putting him over a pole while drastically shifting your own body weight and "hoping they land on the new lead". As in anything, the rider must stay still in the center of the horse and teach the horse a quiet aid, correctly. The flying change is simply an aid for the horse to pick up the canter. The only difference from a normal walk-canter or trot-canter transition is that he is already in the canter, on the other lead. He must understand the aid for a flying change (!!) as simply a canter aid and then he will be able to move his ody crrectly through the movement. Chucking him over a pole or running him through a simple change does not teach him an aid!!! It only serves to teach lead swaps where the rider has to flail herself around, knock the horse out of balance and then "hope the horse does a change". It doesn't look nice, it's not correct and it teaches the horse nothing but to canter around on the forehand, crooked.
Kayty likes this.
     
    02-11-2012, 05:05 PM
  #7
Yearling
I've trained all of my horses to do flying changes the same way and they never "cantered around crooked on the forehand." Maybe I just got lucky but the horses I trained did full changes and didn't change late over the pole. It was becasue they were balanced and ready for the change. Now, admittedly, my experience is more in hunters than dressage though I am breaking into that now. While my horses could do lead changes at any point in the course on command, the actual point of what I would call success was asking for the correct lead over the jump and getting it on the landing and being able to reblance before the corner. As I indicated, and I think you agree, albeit maybe using different terms, the horse has to be balanced and have impulsion, or if you prefer, has to be working from behind. If the horse doesn't have this, agreed, you aren't going to get any type of decent lead change, simple or otherwise. Some horses, not all, will anticipate a change if you do the exercise long enough which is what I meant on the shortened simple change. Agreed, there needs to be 4-5 steps or so and a rebalancing, if it is needed, but, if the horse is already balanced in the downward transition from canter to trot or canter to walk, you don't HAVE to put 4-5 trot/walk steps in between.

As for the pole, it gives the horse a momentary suspension. When I said shift weight, I am not talking about doing a two-point over the pole or overly shifting weight from side to side. It may be no more than simply adding a little more weight, by lengthening the leg, into the new inside iron or just a slight shift of the seat bone in the saddle as the opposite aid is applied.

My present horse (new by 3 weeks) is a proverbial balance nightmare right now but he is also very green. I won't and wouldn't even think of trying to do a simple change with him right now; he could do it but as you indicated, it wouldn't be pretty. He needs complete rebalancing after each transition, which he is getting better and better at, but we still have a ways to go before I attempt even a simple change.
     
    02-11-2012, 06:37 PM
  #8
Trained
Quote:
Originally Posted by tlkng1    
Some horses, not all, will anticipate a change if you do the exercise long enough which is what I meant on the shortened simple change. Agreed, there needs to be 4-5 steps or so and a rebalancing, if it is needed, but, if the horse is already balanced in the downward transition from canter to trot or canter to walk, you don't HAVE to put 4-5 trot/walk steps in between.

As for the pole, it gives the horse a momentary suspension. When I said shift weight, I am not talking about doing a two-point over the pole or overly shifting weight from side to side. It may be no more than simply adding a little more weight, by lengthening the leg, into the new inside iron or just a slight shift of the seat bone in the saddle as the opposite aid is applied.
To the bolded part, yes, yes you do. You MUST rebalance and half halt the horse in the simple change. You ALWAYS need to rebalance! The horse does not just do it themselves because they feel like it. You must rebalance the horse in the simple change. The horse is balanced in the downward transition because you ride him to be balanced. A balanced transition is a great start but it doesn't mean you can stop riding, then you need to balance the walk or trot after the transition, half halt to prepare for the upwards transition and then give the aid. No rider in the world can ride a correct simple change in one step.

The horse should already have enough suspension in his canter to do a flying change if you are teaching him flying changes. If he doesn't and you need a pole to add suspension - then the horse isn't ready for the flying change!!! Like I say, the quality of the canter is paramount. If you are losing so much suspension that you need a pole - you need to go back to the basic canter to restore quality. The flying change aid is also no different from the aid for a canter transition. Shifting your weight around un-neccessarily only serves to unbalance the horse. Half halt, switch the legs and apply the aid as a canter aid to the new lead. No bum-wiggling needed at all.
Klassic Superstar likes this.
     
    02-11-2012, 06:55 PM
  #9
Trained
If you can not control your horses rear you are not going to get a good correct lead change. What aneblel discribed will get you what you need.

What tlkng1 stated will not get you a good solid correct lead change. I have seen so many people try this and at the end of the day they may teach a lead change but it is never correct it is never performed when they need it. It is hit or miss the vast majority of the time. I would hate to loose 5 points b/c I did not have a correct lead change when I needed it.
     
    02-11-2012, 08:11 PM
  #10
Trained
I'm just reading this thread for fun. My horses are so far away from being ready to learn flying lead changes that my biggest problems will be old age and arthritis - for both of us!
kevinshorses likes this.
     

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