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How to get THIS

This is a discussion on How to get THIS within the Horse Training forums, part of the Training Horses category
  • +Using horse message techniques to cure humans

 
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    06-26-2010, 10:14 PM
  #11
Weanling
I personally don't follow any one way of doing things, I take things from everyone I come in contact with and if it makes sense to me then I will use it. I have always used more of the NH way of doing things (not because I was taught it, just because I understand horses and respond accordingly). I have found that if you can understand how a horse moves and thinks you can figure out how to do just about anything. If you want to teach your horse how to side pass from the ground you must first understand how that movement happens. You must work at moving the front a step and then the back. If you start by getting a turn on the forehand and turn on the haunches then you can use that knowledge to get the side pass if you work one step at a time.

The key is to remember that when you are working with your horse you need to be the dominant party in your little herd. That doesn't mean beating your horse into thinking you are the boss, just making yourself the leader by using horse thinking. Horses respond to whoever can make them move. Whether that is another horse or you as the human. We happen to be at a disadvantage to the other horses in the field though, we don't have expressive ears. Remember when working with your horse, we always have our ears pinned. They have to learn that just because our ears are pinned doesn't mean we are telling them off.

I do believe you can get a bond with a horse, however it isn't a bond like we are used to. There really is no "love" there, they don't understand that. It is the bond of the herd, we are the leader, therefore we are safe and looking out for our herd. My horse is good with other people because he knows that humans are nice, but if he had to choose between being with someone else or with me, he will choose me every time because I'm the leader and I'm going to look out for him. He will even choose being with me over his herd in the field. It all comes down to who he thinks is his ultimate leader.
     
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    06-26-2010, 10:32 PM
  #12
Showing
Quote:
Originally Posted by apachiedragon    
These flashy demonstrations bug me mainly because they are designed to make the audience go "oooh, ahhh! Now I want to do that, so I have to go buy every single thing they have for sale out there in the lobby to learn how", lol. They don't show you the countless hours of training it took to get to that level.
Actually Stacy Westfall while giving her brideless/bareback demonstration (I've seen in person) mentioned number of hours it took her to train the horse so people would go "oooh, aaah". I don't remember exact number, but I do remember it was really significant. And she said that without counting those hours it's impossible to train a horse to the level she's at.

To the OP, this video is a pretty classical example of big name NH trainer show-off (whatever they mean by NH). No offense to anyone - I do think it looks very impressive, but IMO it's something rather useless (and I don't mean ground work itself, but that fancy, hundreds hours of time spent tricks). If you want to do it (and learn it), well, you have to go with their methods.
     
    06-26-2010, 10:35 PM
  #13
Started
Quote:
Originally Posted by Silvera    
I personally don't follow any one way of doing things, I take things from everyone I come in contact with and if it makes sense to me then I will use it..
We all react and communicate with horses differently, which is why its important to see what works for you, not just what you see a NH 'god' doing.
     
    06-27-2010, 03:05 PM
  #14
Yearling
Wait... I can't understand this: "They don't show you the countless hours of training it took to get to that level."

This makes you mad? All of the training methods stress patience and dedication and consistency because those things are required... I've never seen any horse trainer pretend there is some magical cure all or training method that comes without hard work and dedication. The demonstrations show you what is possible WITH hard work and effort. Why would the demonstrations make anyone upset? :S

The other point that was made here that NH doesn't create a bond with your horse is silly. No, they aren't performing because they are madly in love with their handler and it IS training -- that's the point! Just like any other discipline it's all training and understanding what is being asked and then doing it.

But spending TIME with your horse creates bond. Building respect and trust creates a bond. Even just grooming and bathing and doing anything can build a relationship with your horse. Working with them in a respectful training way OF COURSE builds a bond or strengthens any existing bond.

Just because anyone can ride your horse doesn't mean your horse doesn't like you or feel a connection with you! A well trained horse should be able to be handled by anyone but that doesn't mean that it can't have a bond with a specific person or people.
     
    06-27-2010, 04:46 PM
  #15
Showing
Deerly, nobody is saying that he is advertising an instant miracle cure. It's just that most BNTs don't go out of their way to mention that it took months, or possibly years of intensive training to get those horses to behave that way and be that consistent. They take their own trained horses to the clinics and exhibitions to show what can be attained using their method and most spectators just assume that it will happen in a very short period of time like a few weeks because their horse will begin to "love" them. If they advertise "Use my method and in only 2 1/2 years, your horse will be this well trained" nobody would be interested because people in general want a quick fix that will work with minimal effort on their part.

And Tasia, if you want to learn how to do that, I suggest you look into CA's methods. Just because you are interested in learning something from one of them doesn't mean that you are a "groupie" and you can use some of CAs methods without being a devout NH person. Like one of the PP said, it is all about finding methods that work for you, regardless of who you learned them from. Even though I thoroughly dislike Parelli, I have a couple of things from him in my arsenal and I feel absolutely no guilt about that.
     
    06-27-2010, 04:53 PM
  #16
Yearling
I don't know about you but the clinics I have seen they actually have people's (not the trainer's) horses and work through issues / introduce concepts in front of everyone, showing the techniques.

Clinton Anderson at least (since that's who is in this video) does two things in his training dvds: He shows you his trained/polished/perfect horse so you see the goal. Then he takes a horse who has never been introduced to the concept of X exercise and teaches it and points out the mistakes and the issues and how to correct them.

I think if anyone sees a well trained horse (or any animal) and doesn't realize it takes a lot of time to reach that end result they are a very silly person to begin with XD

Obviously you want to show off what hard work and good training can do because why else would anyone be interested in trying your techniques? I firmly believe that you should teach by example -- people standing around talking about how amazing their horses are or how amazing their training methods are means nothing to me -- you have to be able to show the end result for all those words to mean much.

I've never really heard the "your horse will love you and because he loves you will do x y z" spiel. I've heard that training a horse and earning their trust and respect can create a bond and an intimacy.

I have never ever ever heard "in only 2 1/2 WEEKS your horse can do this too." If people want to be ignorant and make wild assumptions based on... nothing? Not common sense, not what the trainers are claiming or advertising... but just because they see the end result then? Well... I don't think they have much hope to begin with and obviously should not be trying to train any animal with any method if they think that's how it works.

Edit: But I will say that I have seen some real people do some amazing things with their real horses using NH techniques -- just like with other training methods that are consistent and based on respect and trust. It is a real thing and it is possible to do those things with your horse if that's what you want to invest your time and energy doing.
     
    06-27-2010, 05:03 PM
  #17
Showing
Quote:
I think if anyone sees a well trained horse (or any animal) and doesn't realize it takes a lot of time to reach that end result they are a very silly person to begin with XD
Exactly, but too many people who attend those exhibitions are exactly like that. They have never been around horses and have seen the black stallion too many times and just don't realize how much serious work it is and how frustrating it can be at times. Seeing things like this encourages them to spend their life savings on an unhandled 3 year old stud and a box set of DVDs with the belief that they will have the most amazing bond by the end of the summer. Nobody tells them that even if they do have the horse sense it takes to put any kind of training on a horse, it will take years to build that kind of trust.
     
    06-27-2010, 05:06 PM
  #18
Yearling
I don't think you can blame the trainers for those people though or get upset about them doing their demonstrations because of it. I know YOU (whoever reading this) may not be doing that but some of the angry/irritated/complaining posts on this thread sort of were.

No more than you can get angry at well trained police dog demonstrations inspiring morons to go get german shepherds they allow to become bored and unruly or anyone at any horse show demonstrating their well trained horses and making it look easy.
     
    06-27-2010, 05:10 PM
  #19
Showing
Not blaming the trainers either, just unfortunately, this world is full of stupid people LOL.
     
    06-27-2010, 06:02 PM
  #20
Yearling
Sorry for not replying earlier. I have a training plan layed out but I will be looking into CAs methods aswell.
     

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