How to teach your horse to lunge *without* a whip? - Page 2
 
 

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How to teach your horse to lunge *without* a whip?

This is a discussion on How to teach your horse to lunge *without* a whip? within the Horse Training forums, part of the Training Horses category
  • HORSE EXPLODES ON LUNGE LINE
  • Lunge with or without whip forum

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    08-10-2013, 10:59 AM
  #11
Banned
This is why I dislike round pens....over used and they become a handlers crutch. I've seen so many posts where people feel like they can't do anything without the 'round pen'. Round pens give handlers lots of 'outs' 1. They don't have to put a line on a horse 2. It falsely puts the horse in a circle ie. Horses learn to use the round shape to lean or balance on instead of moving upright on all four legs.
Sorry, round pen rant over.

I agree with Cherie on this. Looking forward to her response later.
updownrider, Cherie and boots like this.
     
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    08-10-2013, 11:14 AM
  #12
Foal
Quote:
Originally Posted by Muppetgirl    
This is why I dislike round pens....over used and they become a handlers crutch. I've seen so many posts where people feel like they can't do anything without the 'round pen'. Round pens give handlers lots of 'outs' 1. They don't have to put a line on a horse 2. It falsely puts the horse in a circle ie. Horses learn to use the round shape to lean or balance on instead of moving upright on all four legs.
Sorry, round pen rant over.

I agree with Cherie on this. Looking forward to her response later.
While I do agree that people tend to over use round pens, that is just what the woman I am boarding with it getting soon, instead of an arena. Just making it clear that I am comfortable using either, I am just currently working in a two acre pasture.
     
    08-10-2013, 11:34 AM
  #13
Super Moderator
The 2 acre pasture is just fine. Round pens are for people and not for horses. They are a convenience and are absolutely a crutch for most who use them.

Correct me if I am wrong, but I suspect that this horse has already pulled away from you. It only takes once for them to learn that they can get away from you.
Quote:
he is fine with the whip when he is standing still, but if he is asked to move faster by means of the whip, even if only picking it up when he is walking, he becomes white-eyed and explodes into running away.
This right here tells me that he is in charge and he is telling you what he will allow and what he will not put up with. This right here tell me that the inmate is running this asylum. It tells me you are doing exactly what I said you were. You are being 'careful' not to 'scare' him with the raised whip. You are dealing with a 'spoiled horse' and the first step forward is to admit that he is spoiled and that he has YOU trained. You do not need a way to longe him without a whip. You FIRST need to teach him to accept the whip and respond to it in the correct way and you need to teach him to respect the halter -- first and foremost. Like most problems, it gets right back down to being a respect issue. Otherwise, you will have this big gaping hole in his training from now on. He will bolt with you on him if someone near him picks up a whip before you can tell them not to raise a whip around your horse. This is not exactly a safe situation.

If he has jerked away from you, he will soon find other times that he will decide to jerk away and run off. This is also not a safe situation. Fix these problems and you will not have a longeing problem.

[I'm worked on the whip re-training. I have trail riders and a guide out on the trail, so I cannot spend much time at the computer today.]
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    08-10-2013, 01:38 PM
  #14
Trained
If you have taught him to move his hq when you point or wave at them you can't use that cue to also mean go forward. Point or wave at his shoulder if you want to move him forward. Also, make sure he moves his feet first and that you are behind his drive line.
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    08-10-2013, 02:13 PM
  #15
Yearling
He needs to learn to move his hindquarters and his shoulders so you can keep him in position. You don't necessarily need a whip and I find lunge whips too long anyway. Just me, I like a shorter whip. I actually use training sticks. (bought off Ebay for less than half of what CA charges for his FYI). I find lunge whips kind of clumsy to work with.

Also, where are you standing? Make sure you're standing behind the drive line so it makes logical sense to move forward.
     
    08-10-2013, 03:08 PM
  #16
Super Moderator
I agree with Cherie. I don't know if I would characterize him as a spoiled horse, but I don't have the no-nonsense, work-a-day, trained hundreds kind of background that she does. So, listen to what she says.

My own trainer phrases it like this:

Your horse has this all inside of him, so do you want it to come out now, or on the trail, while you are on top of him?

That means, that his fear reaction to the whip is inside of him, the tension is there, the anxiety, and working with him in a way that avoids making that come out means that you will be riding out on a horse with that problem inside of him, maybe only masked by him having learned to stand still , suck it up , and "take it " when a whip is put on him.

So, let's say you work a lot on having him just stand still while you put the whip on and off, within his range of tolerance. You get to the point where he will stand still and let you do this, But, as soon as he gets moving, he explodes. So, the problem is still inside of him.
His exploding is an opportunity, not something to avoid. Its the beginning of where he can release his fear. If you stop there, you leave him with the fear. You must stay with him, HELP him get past it by remembering exactly what you are asking for and not accepting anything else.

So, if you are asking him to step forward, he explodes, backs up or tries to flee, you have to shut that down!, get him to look at you with both eyes for a bit, and ask him to step forward.
Even while he is struggling around, backing up, maybe rearing up a bit, trying to go the wrong way, you must not be deflected from continuing to ask , with the rope, to go where you are asking.

Without seeing exactly how you are trying to lunge, it's hard to give specific pointers on how to get better results, and it is no doubt very hard to do with a very strong and explosive horse on the line. (get a rope halter and use a 12 to 15 foot line). But I wanted to share with that way of thinking about this kind of problem to see if it might help you approach your horse differently.
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    08-10-2013, 03:29 PM
  #17
Foal
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinyliny    
I agree with Cherie. I don't know if I would characterize him as a spoiled horse, but I don't have the no-nonsense, work-a-day, trained hundreds kind of background that she does. So, listen to what she says.

My own trainer phrases it like this:

Your horse has this all inside of him, so do you want it to come out now, or on the trail, while you are on top of him?

That means, that his fear reaction to the whip is inside of him, the tension is there, the anxiety, and working with him in a way that avoids making that come out means that you will be riding out on a horse with that problem inside of him, maybe only masked by him having learned to stand still , suck it up , and "take it " when a whip is put on him.

So, let's say you work a lot on having him just stand still while you put the whip on and off, within his range of tolerance. You get to the point where he will stand still and let you do this, But, as soon as he gets moving, he explodes. So, the problem is still inside of him.
His exploding is an opportunity, not something to avoid. Its the beginning of where he can release his fear. If you stop there, you leave him with the fear. You must stay with him, HELP him get past it by remembering exactly what you are asking for and not accepting anything else.

So, if you are asking him to step forward, he explodes, backs up or tries to flee, you have to shut that down!, get him to look at you with both eyes for a bit, and ask him to step forward.
Even while he is struggling around, backing up, maybe rearing up a bit, trying to go the wrong way, you must not be deflected from continuing to ask , with the rope, to go where you are asking.

Without seeing exactly how you are trying to lunge, it's hard to give specific pointers on how to get better results, and it is no doubt very hard to do with a very strong and explosive horse on the line. (get a rope halter and use a 12 to 15 foot line). But I wanted to share with that way of thinking about this kind of problem to see if it might help you approach your horse differently.
Thank you for this post. He is by no means spoiled and I have always used pressure and release with him, always staying with him when he does explode. He just seems to go on forever when he blows up, and when he calms down and I reward him for that, he does it all over the next day which is a little discouraging. But, that being said! I think I needed to hear you say that I should seize it as an opportunity rather than dread it, and every step forward he takes is a little victory.
     
    08-11-2013, 12:47 AM
  #18
Weanling
Horses that are abused don't have 'special training'. Treat him like you would treat a horse that has never seen a whip before and is scared of it.

If he steps into your space while lunging, step in really close and yell sternly "OUT" or some cue, you might even have to use your hands and make your self a semi-monster. This is the beginning of 'Pushiness', stop it now while it is little before he turns into a train running you over.

Long lined? Does that mean Ground-Drive? I work at a place with driving horses and one exercise they do is put their bridle on, put a surcingle/harness on and lunge them. You don't need a whip for this but they do need to have a general idea of what ground driving is. So you stand like you would for lunging and you have the inside rein shorter, and the outside rein is still connected but it wraps around their butt. So your inside rein is telling direction, and the outside rein you swing or tap their butt with it. But first you need to teach them that when you do the cue of 'slapping', not really slapping but you know what I mean with the reins, that means to move forward. :)

I do this exercise all the time with mine :)
     
    08-11-2013, 12:57 AM
  #19
Started
I had issues lunging my mare. She would do the same, go out for a few steps, then come back.

YOU have to be confident and VERY assertive if not aggressive.

Use the whip. Don't baby him. In time he will learn that the whip isn't going to hurt him. But he should still respect it.

Everytime he goes to come back in to you, MAKE him move away. You don't want him there!!

If he explodes when you ask for forward, don't correct him. You want him to be moving. Let him move so he finds out its OK.

I'd write more but I feel its mostly been covered.
     
    08-12-2013, 10:07 PM
  #20
Foal
I'm launching my horse without a whip. I used it to teach him launching though. You should spend alot of time desensetizing. Take the whip and pet him with it all over the body.make sure you have a good grip on the lead line He will be moving around trying to get way from hit. The trick is not stop petting him until he stands still. Once you start you can't stop until he stands still. Otherwise you just thought him that running away is the solution. Make sure you have enough time, it may take a while. The first time I did this with my horse it took about 20 minutes. Once your horse stands still take the whip of and let him relax ( if he licks his lips he's thinking about what just happend -do not interfere. Wait till he's done and then do it again. You should do that for a couple days/weeks. You can see on hand the video that my horse doesn't mind it now. If I were you I would not start launging until he completely accepts the whip. When you launch him you need to have something to make him move and pay attention ( especially if you trying to teach him launching and he keeps coming to you) to you because he will try sooner or later to get away with it by not "listening" and then you will have behavior problems because he's going to be saying" I don't have to do it you can't make me "

Sorry for my bad english I'm german but I hope this helped some :)




Horsemanship Groundwork - Bodenarbeit, Desensitize, Reiten ohne Sattel und Trense - YouTube
     

Tags
abused, exercise, horse training, lunging, whip shy

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