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How to train a horse to jump for eventing?

This is a discussion on How to train a horse to jump for eventing? within the Horse Training forums, part of the Training Horses category

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        04-17-2013, 11:58 AM
      #11
    Green Broke
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Courtneysequine    
    Oh I wasnt talking about hunter derby, I was talking about hunter/jumper. More like equitation classes.
    The thing is though, a lot of those hunter derby horses, are in hunter classes as well. And win. I am talking about a well trained, and properly trained hunter.

    Not the hunters at little schooling shows.

    And hunter and jumper are two very different disciplines
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        04-17-2013, 12:12 PM
      #12
    Super Moderator
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Courtneysequine    
    Oh I wasnt talking about hunter derby, I was talking about hunter/jumper. More like equitation classes.
    If you were British - like me - you would wonder what on earth the hunter/jumper classes have to do with what we call a hunter as they are almost a contradiction in terms.
    We do have Working Hunter classes in the UK where the horses/ponies are expected to perform in a way that makes them look as if they would be a safe enjoyable ride X country in real life hunting but they are judged on the horses performance and type and not on what you call equitation so a horse that's forward going, bold but careful is what they look for and not something that needs to be set on a perfect stride at every fence because that's not going to happen on a cross country course.
         
        04-17-2013, 12:43 PM
      #13
    Banned
    For the record, equitation horses are supposed to have a flat jump that jars the rider as little as possible, in consequence, they often can travel hollow and be what's called a "leg mover" - no movement up through the back.

    Exacty the opposite of what you want in an event horses.

    I started event prospects EXACTLY the same way I started a hunter or a jumper prospect, it was the way they were finished that was different. If the horse was going to finish as a hunter, I concentrated on developing a perfect rhythm in a 12 foot stride that would carry the horse to his fences, jumping form and the shape of the horse's arc in the air - you want a hunter to loaf down to the base of the fence on very light contact, pat the ground in front while pushing off strongly behiend, and drape over the fence with some "hang time." If a horse was going to finish as a jumper, I'd work on developing 3 - 5 distinct paces at the canter, turns on the haunches and short turns, being able to control the size and shape of the arc (a hunter needs one, a jumper needs many different) and jumping the panel at any angle and at any point (cross-paneling, or choosing to jump the left or right side of the panel at will.) If they're going to finish as an event horse, I'm going to do everything I did for the hunter and jumper, plus hack out and jump natural fences such as ditches, banks, drops and water.
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        04-17-2013, 01:10 PM
      #14
    Super Moderator
    I'm not sure what the term 'loafing' means as it doesn't translate but if I'm looking for a potential in a horse that's going to go cross country, hunter trials, working hunter or just plain hunting then I want it to feel like it wants to jump so it gives me the idea that's its attacking that fence with purpose. We do tend to ride on much more contact (doesn't mean heavy hands) in the UK so a loose rein is rarely going to be seen and if anything the horse is going to be taking a bit of a forward pull against you rather than you pushing it on - as long as that's controllable then it gives me more confidence that it intends to get me over the other side in one piece and not stop or jump half hearted and end up in a big heap. You have a time fault system in the X country phase that pushes you to a pretty brisk pace
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6SCUdp0SFZA
         
        04-17-2013, 01:15 PM
      #15
    Foal
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by maura    
    For the record, equitation horses are supposed to have a flat jump that jars the rider as little as possible, in consequence, they often can travel hollow and be what's called a "leg mover" - no movement up through the back.

    Exacty the opposite of what you want in an event horses.
    This is what I was talking about when I said they jump differently. Thank you
         
        04-17-2013, 01:39 PM
      #16
    Banned
    Jaydee,

    American show hunters are a whole different thing than the UK working hunter. The UK working hunter has stayed a lot closer to its roots as a field hunter, the American show hunters has evolved into a discipline all its own with its own conventions and criteria. Most American show hunters would have a case of the vapors and collapse if you attempted to fox hunt them, they are "hot house flowers." Also, I've seen video of the winning horses at HOYS; they are lovely horses that are forward, brave and clever jumpers, but they would not pin in an American show ring because they lack the style and way of going expected.

    Google "John French and Rumba" or "Destry Spielberg and Rumba" (can't post links from work, sorry) or look at the link posted earlier in this thread and you'll get an idea of what's pinning in the American hunter ring. Oh, and those horses? They are considered to show a lot of pace and expression as opposed to a normal Children's or Adult Amateur class.

    To the OP, the flat jumping style of an equitation horse is not something that's really trained for initially. If a horse is builit to go that way, or learns to go that way defensively with a restrictive rider, then they are developed as eq horses, where as round, scopey jumpers as slotted towards hunters. Just train your horse to be a tidy, careful jumper.

    And I'm still not sure I know what you mean by "hunter/jumper"
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        04-17-2013, 01:49 PM
      #17
    Foal
    Equitation schooling shows also have jumper classes, so they call it hunter/jumper.
         
        04-17-2013, 02:11 PM
      #18
    Green Broke
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Courtneysequine    
    Equitation schooling shows also have jumper classes, so they call it hunter/jumper.
    What you are not realizing is. Hunter/Jumper are two different disciplins.

    So you really are not making any sense in that way.
         
        04-17-2013, 02:19 PM
      #19
    Foal
    Look up a hunter/jumper show. They have shows that are considered hunter/jumper shows, that are called that. Doesnt matter that they are different disciplines, because they are often showed at the same show.

    This is a definition of h/j :
    “Hunter/Jumper” refers to a specific equestrian discipline or style of riding where horses are ridden English style and jump over a series of obstacles, also called fences or jumps. A series of fences is called a "course." Equitation is a specialty area of the hunter/jumper discpline.

    Within the discipline there are three distinct subdisciplines: hunters, jumpers and equitation. The two terms “hunter/jumper” are often used synonymously because today's horse shows offer classes in both subdisciplines to accommodate competitors, as well as the third less common subdiscpline, equitation.

    In a nutshell, hunters show over simplified courses meant to mimic traditional hunt field obstacles and the judging is subjective. In general, judges are looking for horses that are well mannered, athletic and attractive to ride safely and smoothly over the fences.

    On the other hand, jumpers ride over technically difficult courses that tend to twist and turn. The judging is objective and mathematical based on whether the horse knocks down a fence, stops at a fence or does not complete the course in a certain time limit. All of those mistakes incur "faults" or penalties. The horse with the fewest faults and the fastest time taken to complete the course wins the competition.

    Equitation, is a hybrid between hunters and jumpers, where the rider’s abilities are judged subjectively over a more difficult jumper type course.
         
        04-17-2013, 02:24 PM
      #20
    Super Moderator
    I start any horse that has to jump the same way - poles, small fences and grids. I will also expect them to find their way over anything I put them at when out riding, ditches, small hedges, logs or anything else that is put in their way. I also take them out Fox Hunting as this teaches them ti jump anything in front of them regardless of what is going on around them, out of any ground conditions and learning to be 'brave.'

    I think that the US showing classes are so boring. Doesn't matter what type it is. Hunter/jumpers are very unlikely to go at that same sort of pace out following hounds and, with the exaggerated forward seat the riders would be over the horse's head at the first drop or stumble.

    This shows the Working Hunter Pony winner (!5 hands or under)
    You can see the rider do an individual show which includes a hand gallop.

    Conformation judging
         

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