This is how we train a fearless trail horse! - Page 4 - The Horse Forum

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post #31 of 299 Old 10-10-2011, 06:52 PM
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Originally Posted by pintophile View Post
But the difference between you guys and Cherie is that Cherie does this for a living. Training a good trail horse is her job. Working through your horse's fear and letting it explore and be curious is a fine way to do it, but those horses are more your "pets", hobby, and
Well yes, you're right... now. I used to train horses for others though & I didn't do it much differently, but that's a big part of the reason I reckon I didn't make much money from it - I took my time & I reckon my way can be a fair bit slower, whereas doing it as a 'job' would require things to just get done. I'm in no way knocking Cherie's ideas, as said, don't necessarily think her way is incompatible either, just giving my take on it.
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post #32 of 299 Old 10-10-2011, 07:16 PM
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You're very much right... and that kind makes me sad to think about, that most people just want a "quiet" horse who they just hop on and go. These are the type of horses that are so dead like that it can't be much anything less than riding a machine.
But then that's just me, I suppose at least these sort of horses have a future home with someone with kids.
I don't know that most of them want that or not, although of course some do & some train like that. But 'quiet', 'calm' 'obedient' 'fearless' whatever doesn't at all mean necessarily 'dead' IMO & while I agree fully with how you've described your relationship with your horse, my perception of Cherie's post didn't necessarily give me the idea of 'robotic' or 'dead' horses at all. I think it's not so much what you do in that way, but how you do it & your mindset as to whether you create a 'good' or 'deadhead' horse. It isn't black & white.

Yeah, at the mo I have young kids and I absolutely do want my horses to be obedient for them. That's not to say I'd expect the horses to behave the same with them as me in the face of 'scaries', because my kids aren't confident yet, so I will be in control, leading the horses, either on foot or from my horse, until they are. I would not even consider asking them to do some of the things Cherie suggested ATM, although I don't have a problem with them myself. That's the main difference I see - between a confident, competent horseperson directing a horse and a less confident or competent person asking for it. But the post was about training the horse, not about what just anyone should do *to* a horse in those situations, the way I understood it.
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post #33 of 299 Old 10-10-2011, 08:51 PM Thread Starter
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Thank you Wild Spot and Sahara and the others that actually understand and have ridden a good trail horse or a good ranch horse. A good well-trained saddle horse is not a 'dead-head'. I hate dead-heads -- except that I keep a couple around that I can put total dummies on and I know they will baby-sit even the dumbest rider that is doing everything wrong despite three people telling them not to.

Don't tell me that a horse is a dead-head just because he does not give you resistance and have his own agenda. Don't tell me a horse that you can run out after a steer that needs doctoring and rope and doctor him all by yourself (with the help of your horse, of course), is a dead-head. Don't tell me that a horse that carries a complete stranger up above timber-line in a place so steep and rough that a person would be hard-put to walk, is a dead-head. You get in places like that, you don't need a horse that wants to stop and sniff around or turn around to look or stuff.

I think that the people that actually think a horse loses its personality and its 'trained out of them' {choke} have just never ridden a good, well-mannered trail horse or a good ranch horse in their entire lives. How in the world can resistance and arguing be mistaken for personality?

I have never seen a well-trained trail horse or ranch horse stumble over a snake or anything else. But I can tell you that when I have a well-trained horse stop dead in his tracks, I know there is a real serious concern and I am smart enough to not force him forward. I KNOW there is something there. I never have to wonder if he is just looking or sniffing or if there is really a problem.

I had that exact thing happen about 5 years ago. I had a really solid ranch horse bow up his neck, stop and back up a step. I told my husband, who behind me, to help me see what was wrong because I knew something was wrong. About that time a Western Diamondback that was over 7 feet long and bigger around than my 200# husband's forearm raised up above 3 foot tall grass and started to rattle. His head was over 3 inches wide. He was the biggest Rattlesnake I have ever seen. My horse was probably 2 feet from his head when he stopped.

So no! A well-broke horse does not lose its personality or character. I just know there are an awful lot of people that have never ridden one.
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post #34 of 299 Old 10-10-2011, 09:35 PM
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Western Diamondback that was over 7 feet long and bigger around than my 200# husband's forearm raised up above 3 foot tall grass and started to rattle. His head was over 3 inches wide. He was the biggest Rattlesnake I have ever seen. My horse was probably 2 feet from his head when he stopped.
OMG!! I thought we had some scary snakes in Australia!! Didn't know those guys got that big!
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post #35 of 299 Old 10-11-2011, 06:28 AM
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I have ridden very well mannered trail horses a good part of my riding years I very well know the differences, I've ridden and worked with them first hand.

I suppose what I am trying to say about this whole thing, and not by any means start a fight- just point out my own thoughts, is that I just don't agree with the training method, with not letting the horse do anything but listen to whom it may concern. I'm a very give and take person.
Everyone trains a little differently, just because I look at things a little differently doesn't mean I have a bad horse, and it doesn't by any means imply she is a misbehaving heaven as your post kind of makes it sound. I'm sure your horses are well behaved, and I'll admit that you have way more years on me, but that doesn't mean I have to agree, just shrug and be glad that they get good homes.

Looking up, I think I could have tweeked my earlier words to be stated a little better, but the meaning in there holds true for me. I didn't come to the thread looking for a fight or get people to my "side", I was interested in the title and ended up not agreeing 100%.


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Quote:
Western Diamondback that was over 7 feet long and bigger around than my 200# husband's forearm raised up above 3 foot tall grass and started to rattle. His head was over 3 inches wide. He was the biggest Rattlesnake I have ever seen. My horse was probably 2 feet from his head when he stopped.
That isn't a snake, that's a small dragon
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post #36 of 299 Old 10-11-2011, 12:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Tianimalz View Post
just because I look at things a little differently doesn't mean I have a bad horse,
Yet, this is exactly what you implied with your remarks to everyone else. You feel sad for a quiet horse. I feel sad for a spoiled rotten rank horse. I can easily find a home for my sensible trail horses. How many people want a horse that puts up a fight with every fork in the road?

To each his own, I spose.
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post #37 of 299 Old 10-11-2011, 01:30 PM
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Thanks, Cherie!!! You are a GREAT resource, and a terrific example of the old type of training I used to see as a child, but is often absent today. BTW, you were absolutely right about tying up. **hugs**
Last weekend, I had some extra help so we worked our 3 horses all day. At the end of the day, I tied up my 5 yo's to untack and brush, and when I unhooked my 5 yo QH, he just stayed at his spot, foot cocked. I had to PULL him away so he knew he was free--SOOO funny, but I have even more confidence in him after this.
I think that a well broken horse is just like a brand new car--EVERYTHING works right for both. You can get braver and gain confidence in your horse by HOURS AND HOURS, ad nauseum, of schooling. If you are most confident in a small arena, school there. If it's on the trail, school there. Everybody wants this PC "personal relationship" with their horse, which is only possible by wasting time with them. You sacrifice other things in your life to do this, but I think I already watch too much tv and spend too much time on the I'Net, LOL!! I believe that a horse is TRUELY happy when he has and he knows his job.
Again, CHERIE, EXCELLENT post!!
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post #38 of 299 Old 10-11-2011, 08:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Cherie View Post
Thank you Wild Spot and Sahara and the others that actually understand and have ridden a good trail horse or a good ranch horse. A good well-trained saddle horse is not a 'dead-head'. I hate dead-heads -- except that I keep a couple around that I can put total dummies on and I know they will baby-sit even the dumbest rider that is doing everything wrong despite three people telling them not to.

Don't tell me that a horse is a dead-head just because he does not give you resistance and have his own agenda. Don't tell me a horse that you can run out after a steer that needs doctoring and rope and doctor him all by yourself (with the help of your horse, of course), is a dead-head. Don't tell me that a horse that carries a complete stranger up above timber-line in a place so steep and rough that a person would be hard-put to walk, is a dead-head. You get in places like that, you don't need a horse that wants to stop and sniff around or turn around to look or stuff.

I think that the people that actually think a horse loses its personality and its 'trained out of them' {choke} have just never ridden a good, well-mannered trail horse or a good ranch horse in their entire lives. How in the world can resistance and arguing be mistaken for personality?

I have never seen a well-trained trail horse or ranch horse stumble over a snake or anything else. But I can tell you that when I have a well-trained horse stop dead in his tracks, I know there is a real serious concern and I am smart enough to not force him forward. I KNOW there is something there. I never have to wonder if he is just looking or sniffing or if there is really a problem.

I had that exact thing happen about 5 years ago. I had a really solid ranch horse bow up his neck, stop and back up a step. I told my husband, who behind me, to help me see what was wrong because I knew something was wrong. About that time a Western Diamondback that was over 7 feet long and bigger around than my 200# husband's forearm raised up above 3 foot tall grass and started to rattle. His head was over 3 inches wide. He was the biggest Rattlesnake I have ever seen. My horse was probably 2 feet from his head when he stopped.

So no! A well-broke horse does not lose its personality or character. I just know there are an awful lot of people that have never ridden one.
Well put. I've only seen 2 rattlesnakes here and both were spotted from the back of a good rope horse while looking for cows in the woods. Of course, the horse saw them before I did and stopped and perked up. When that happens, I know he's either spotted a cow or something that bears watchin'. Brilliant thread and post btw!
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post #39 of 299 Old 10-11-2011, 08:37 PM
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Yet, this is exactly what you implied with your remarks to everyone else. You feel sad for a quiet horse. I feel sad for a spoiled rotten rank horse. I can easily find a home for my sensible trail horses. How many people want a horse that puts up a fight with every fork in the road?

To each his own, I spose.

O.o I never said my horse puts up a fight... but okay. I've had many neighbors tell me they would buy my mare in an instant if I were to put her up for sale... but alrighty.

I'm not going to argue.
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post #40 of 299 Old 10-11-2011, 08:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Tianimalz View Post
O.o I never said my horse puts up a fight... but okay. I've had many neighbors tell me they would buy my mare in an instant if I were to put her up for sale... but alrighty.

I'm not going to argue.
I am not saying that your horse specifically puts up a fight. What I am trying to point out is that many horses will test a rider at every given opportunity, often unbeknownst to the rider. This testing will escalate over time until the rider is no longer the brains of the operation. That does not make a good trail horse. I also want my horse to be inquisitive and curious, but he can do that on his own time. When the saddle goes on there is only "one cook in the kitchen", so to speak. That in no way implies that he is "dead". It implies that he is well-trained.
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