How would you work with this horse? - Page 3

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How would you work with this horse?

This is a discussion on How would you work with this horse? within the Horse Training forums, part of the Training Horses category

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        04-16-2013, 05:04 PM
    I'm not doing this for free. And as I'm paid to do it (and skint), I'm going to keep plodding away with the horse doing the best I can for her. And I have told owner what I think she should do, but as owner is an adult, I can't say, "You*must* do this." Well, I reckon some trainers try (and their trainees post whinging threads here and on Chronicle of the Horse), but that's not me. In fairness, owner has started taken lessons at a local riding school in response to me prodding her about spending more time on schoolmasters. So I am not without influence.
    loosie likes this.
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        04-16-2013, 05:09 PM
    Perhaps you could rethink the training, since you were concerned enough to start a thread about it. Perhaps you should imagine that the owner is a young teenage horse-crazy girl, who could be hurt badly by this horse. Then, make it your mission to "boot camp" the horse. Honestly, the babysitter horses we talk about and read about it don't start that way. My QH, "Ro Go Bar" (1982-2009,RIP) was afraid of being tied, afraid of cues, afraid of gunfire, etc. After a few years of lessons and being cooed and ooodled by my teenage students that came carrying carrots, he turned around. By the time he was a 10yo anybody could handle and ride him.
        04-16-2013, 05:34 PM
    Super Moderator
    I doubt this horse will ever be suitable for a novice, one of the main reasons people are wary of crossing welsh with TB's even though they can produce great competition horses is that they do have a tendency to sometimes be either very 'hot', excitable and fizzy or just downright useless because they are so high strung they can't deal with life in the normal way that any other horse that gets desensitized just by being around stuff does. I'm not sure if there's some sort of a genetic thing with welsh breeds in general that throws back from time to time but the unwarranted auctions used to be full of them and even the hardest riding dealers would throw them back in after a few weeks. A lot of the time when you buy them they've been sedated but once that wears off......
    Whats she like when ridden with another horse at the side or in front of her?
        04-16-2013, 06:50 PM
    Originally Posted by thesilverspear    
    @Sky, she's pretty much on all forage. Just gets a bit of chaff at feeding time so she doesn't feel left out. Her ground manners are fine. By that I mean, not so good that Buck Brannaman, Mark Rashid, and Chris Irwin would be lining up to use her as their next clinic horse, but functional. She's turned out 24/7 in summer but currently out from 9am to 2pm or thereabouts.
    Believe me when I say working on their ground manners will help under saddle problems. Sky used to bolt, spook huge, ignore cues, dodge/motorcycle around 'scary' things, be up up up. And I focused on just fixing his focus and confidence and respect for cues on the ground.. and he began to be MUCH better under saddle.
    Northern and Corporal like this.
        04-16-2013, 09:14 PM
    Originally Posted by faye    
    if you are giving her magnesium make sure she gets enough calcium as well.
    Horses can't process magnesium properly without sufficient calcium
    Faye, I'm not a nutritionist and I haven't done enough study to think that I know the answer, but from what I have learned, too much calcium is a big part of the problem. The accepted 'conventional' view on Ca/Mg ratios is 2:1 but it appears that guideline came from a study in 1800's which suggested that levels above 2:1 were detrimental & that that should be the outside limit. In other words, optimal levels are far less. Studies have been done in human medicine that suggest a low calcium diet, no calcium supps and extra Mg is helpful for metabolic problems, mental & physical stress, osteoporosis & other 'diseases' and some doctors are suggesting the optimum ratio may be the reverse - 1:2 Ca:Mg Magnesium is also used up more quickly in times of stress - mental or physical, especially 'low grade' chronic stress; when foreign substances - bute for eg are in the system and when animals/people are on high carb diets. So... lots of maybes there, but something I think it's valuable to learn more about.
        04-16-2013, 09:31 PM
    What is it with Welsh breeds? I've never heard this sort of thing was a 'breed trait' before.(& have to ask why haven't they bred it out??) Is it just section D's?(how are they classified again?) Certain lines? I've owned and known a fair number of Welsh Mountain ponies(my kid's pony is anything but skittish) and haven't experienced any abnormal nervousness or such.
    Northern likes this.
        04-17-2013, 03:34 AM
    Green Broke
    Loosie, doesnt tend to be the section A's (welsh mountain ponies) but the section C's and D's perticularly the D's are known for being "hot." why hasnt it been bred out? Well that would be because it was purposely bred in for the show ring.
    loosie likes this.
        04-17-2013, 10:20 AM
    Super Moderator
    Originally Posted by faye    
    loosie, doesnt tend to be the section A's (welsh mountain ponies) but the section C's and D's perticularly the D's are known for being "hot." why hasnt it been bred out? Well that would be because it was purposely bred in for the show ring.
    I actually disagree about the section A's - like the others they can be wonderful - my boys had section A's as lead rein and first ridden ponies and they were fantastic but I've also come across some dreadful ones - for eg. My one time boss bought a foal as a companion for the first foal they bred, it was handled daily, always around a busy yard that was attached to a working farm and yet even when it was old it was still a high strung nervous wreck of a thing and would do anything to avoid being ridden including lie on the floor and flip over backwards.
    I had a 13.2 section C that as a child that jumped really well, wasn't spooky but was so fizzy he was like a well shaken bottle of 'pop' all the time
    I actually find the section B's can be the worst, they started to look like mini TB's.
    When I was a teenager I used to 'hang out' at a local riding school/dealer/competition yard and a dealer from Shropshire called Tom Bowdler used to send loads of welsh ponies to the owner to be ridden on and a lot of them just never accepted the stresses of daily life even when surrounded by all the goings on there.
    For a guess I think it could be related to the Arabian blood that they poured into them to get a pony with a big body and a small pretty head, maybe some bad genes from way back that keep on emerging and not helped when someone gets a 'bad' mare and decides to breed from it because they can't do anything else with it
        04-17-2013, 10:44 AM
    The good news then is surely that this little mare at least isn't contributing to the Welsh D nutty gene pool. Like I said in the OP, she'd probably be a broodmare as we speak if she hadn't had complications with the delivery of her first foal and lost the foal.

    They are sparky, athletic wee things. When the horse goes well (between bouts of spooking terror), she is so very nice.

    I do wonder what goes through people's heads when they, as novice horsepeople and first-time buyers, jump to buy the first thing they see and "fall in love" with, but without educating themselves about the breed or assessing the temperament/training of the animal in question and whether or not it is appropriate for a novice. Most of the people who I work with fit to one degree or another in this category. Luckily, most of the horses, while young, are pretty forgiving and not very complicated (except for this Sec D mare) so it's not totally disastrous. But I always want to ask, "Why??? You could have made your life easy and bought an 18-year old schoolmaster!"
        04-17-2013, 10:57 AM
    Green Broke
    Originally Posted by jaydee    
    When I was a teenager I used to 'hang out' at a local riding school/dealer/competition yard and a dealer from Shropshire called Tom Bowdler used to send loads of welsh ponies to the owner to be ridden on and a lot of them just never accepted the stresses of daily life even when surrounded by all the goings on there.
    What a small world. I bought Pride off Tom (at Beeston horse market, bought him before he went through the ring!)

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