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post #11 of 33 Old 08-24-2010, 10:38 PM
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Obviously your trainer isn't as good at training youngsters than she thought she was! I would try to find someone *good* who can help you if you don't know exactly what to do yourself.

Has the horse been taught to yield to pressure in a variety of ways, including light pressure on his sides? It sounds like it may have been the leg pressure that caused him to panic. And perhaps strong hands on the reins added to him feeling trapped & reactive. Or perhaps it was a combination of things that led to a 'final straw'. I would be ensuring he *confidently* and reliably responds to gentle pressure in all sorts of ways before getting on him again.

When it's time to get back in the saddle, I'd do it very gradually, giving him your full attention & the rider should get off at any sign the horse is beginning to worry - *before* he gets reactive. Then he can gain confidence with having someone up there first & foremost. I agree with others that once you get him going, on a lunge line is a good, safer way to begin.
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post #12 of 33 Old 08-24-2010, 10:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcgillrobyn View Post
Thankyou for your tips. What is line driving?
Line driving and long lining are the same thing (correct me if I am wrong, I always have called it long lining). Basically you introduce the stop and turn signals from the ground using something similar to the following:

long lining.jpg

Depending on the horse, they may pick this up in a few days or take longer than a month to fully comprehend. When you start doing this, make sure that someone is at the horse's head as well as driving from behind, both as a comforter for the horse and also for additional control in case the horse takes off. Bear in mind that they do not know what a stop signal is yet, YOU have to teach them that! If you decide it is a job for someone else then ask them about their experience in regards to starting young horses that have not been broken.

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post #13 of 33 Old 08-25-2010, 12:46 PM Thread Starter
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We have been lunging him for a few months. He is responding to commands fairly well. Still can be strong when he has had enough. Only comes in when he feels like it, 50 50 at this point. The saddle, girth, bit,
stirrups, draping lunge line over body, face do not bother him at all. A bit spooky and will kick out occationally if he does'nt see you coming behind him. Is now great for the fairrier while he was a disaster at first. Great personallity. I really appriciate all these tips please keep them coming. It is so reasuring to have support here and confirmation that we are following the right steps. As I have been assured we are off our rocker. lol thanks again all
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post #14 of 33 Old 08-25-2010, 03:56 PM
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Lunging and long lining are different. Lunging involves verbal and body cues to change gaits/direction/speed, while Long Line involves direct contact with the horse's mouth on both sides, to teach the horse how to (as sarahver said) stop and turn. It is simulating somebody holding the reins from atop the horse's back.
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post #15 of 33 Old 08-25-2010, 03:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by azarni View Post
Lunging and long lining are different. Lunging involves verbal and body cues to change gaits/direction/speed, while Long Line involves direct contact with the horse's mouth on both sides, to teach the horse how to (as sarahver said) stop and turn. It is simulating somebody holding the reins from atop the horse's back.
Ha ha, I know what lunging is!! I was talking about long lining! As in long lines!!

Edit: Oh, I see you weren't referring to me - sorry!

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post #16 of 33 Old 08-25-2010, 04:56 PM
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Haha yep, the OP said they've been doing lots of lunging, whereas you were recommending long lining
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post #17 of 33 Old 08-25-2010, 08:30 PM Thread Starter
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Oh, I did think you meant lunging. Thankyou for setting me straight! And by the way, how do you put in the pictures?
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post #18 of 33 Old 08-25-2010, 08:51 PM
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Originally Posted by sarahver View Post
Depending on the horse, they may pick this up in a few days or take longer than a month to fully comprehend.
Good description sara. To the above, I'd say it depends on the trainer & their method more than the horse

Quote:
When you start doing this, make sure that someone is at the horse's head as well as driving from behind, both as a comforter for the horse and also for additional control in case the horse takes off. Bear in mind that they do not know what a stop signal is yet
I've rarely ever had anyone to help me train, so never ground driven with someone at the horse's head. If the horse does spook, for one I start in a small enclosure, so I can safely let go the reins if needed, and secondly, if they get 'difficult' I will drop one rein and bend them, which affords enough control to at very least have them lunging around me until they calm a bit. I personally don't teach lunging & long reining until the horse has learned how to yield well to pressure - these exercises are a progression of the basics - so the horses I teach do indeed understand how to stop, start, turn, etc before I get to that stage.

Quote:
We have been lunging him for a few months. He is responding to commands fairly well. Still can be strong when he has had enough. Only comes in when he feels like it, .... A bit spooky and will kick out occationally if he does'nt see you coming behind him. ....As I have been assured we are off our rocker.
As I teach lunging as a progression of the basics(essentially learning to do what they've already learned at a distance), I would personally consider the horse wasn't up to lunging yet, or I was going about something wrongly if I was still having lunging problems after weeks, let alone months(of course, that depends on how much time it has amounted to as well).

Some horses just have a more 'spooky' personality and may always be flighty & need extra careful, considerate training. It's also natural for a prey animal to 'spook' & react to surprises. That said, I personally work on their trust and attitude towards me first & foremost, and that remains a big focus in whatever I do. So I would prove(with gradual desensitisation, approach & retreat tactics) that I & my 'toys' & 'games' weren't something to worry about, regardless of what I was doing, where I 'popped up'. I would also make sure the horse sees me as a Good Thing in his life and *wanted* to be with me, come to me, play my games. Rather than just seeing it maybe as the better 'evil' when he doesn't have much choice. I use a lot of positive reinforcement(reward) training, and this really helps with the attitude. I don't bother teaching them anything else much without that foundation established, and at any time, if that begins to waver, I take the time to work out what's needed to re-establish it.

As for people thinking you're off your rocker, while I don't think it's a good idea to try to tackle the job on your own without *good* help when you're not experienced - it's very easy to stuff up a good horse, as your trainer has found - I'd take that as more of an indication of those people's skill & knowledge about training & horse behaviour than a true reflection about you guys.
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post #19 of 33 Old 08-25-2010, 09:31 PM
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One of the things people dont realize is horses dont know what pressure on the mouth means until you connect the pressure on there mouth to slowing off the feet. Ground work is better than lunging by far but you have to know how to do it and for that you need a good trainer.
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post #20 of 33 Old 08-28-2010, 09:38 PM Thread Starter
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Krystal and Mozart! Definately working on the ground work,slow but sure thanks

Last edited by mcgillrobyn; 08-28-2010 at 09:40 PM.
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