Hurting Horses? - Page 5 - The Horse Forum
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post #41 of 69 Old 06-03-2008, 02:31 PM
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Re: Hurting Horses?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jubilee Rose
I was talking to my barn manager and she thinks that humans can't really hurt horses. She thinks that horses are so big and powerful that we can't really hurt them by coming onto them physically. She also brought up how horses take a lot of bangs, scrapes, kicks, bites, etc from other horses. By the way, she takes good care of her horses, so don't worry about that. But I tend to disagree. Yes horses are big and strong, but I think we can hurt them. What do you guys think??
To put it blunty, and nothing personal towards you, I think you're trainer is ridiculous. Animal or horse abuse doesn't just mean "if you don't hurt it, then it's ok". Raising your voice is plenty enough to mentally injure a lot of horses. A smack given at the wrong time for no good reason is enough to mentally injure an animal.

If your trainer were right, we wouldn't have to deal with abused and mishandled horses.
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post #42 of 69 Old 06-03-2008, 02:45 PM
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I had a nice long response typed up for this thread and deleted it. Suffice to say that all living things with nerve endings can be hurt. The level of pain may be less for some creatures than for others. Fras can kick Shiloh and she will be ok. Shiloh can kick me and I will have a bruise the size of florida and can hardly walk for a week.
Does any of that make sense?


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post #43 of 69 Old 06-03-2008, 03:14 PM
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Well said, Vida!!

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post #44 of 69 Old 06-03-2008, 05:03 PM
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Thank you farmpony84 for standing up for me. I appreciate it!

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post #45 of 69 Old 06-03-2008, 08:27 PM
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well said farmpony.

different people have different views on the levels of pain we can inflict on a horse. for example; jarred has been in an awful mood lately (its been raining for 2 weeks and he gets cranky in the rain) and has reverted back a little to randomly kicking at you just because he feels like it. jarred is a huge horse and i cant afford to have one of his kicks connect with me. so ive learnt to watch and know when we is going to kick and before he gets a chance i smack him hard on the butt. its stops him from what hes doing and the only effect it seems to have is shock value rather than pain. even if my smack did sting him a little it would be no different to the smacked bum i used to get from mum as a kid except that i dont think it would hurt them even half as much.

on the other side of the coin there are situations where people get a little too carried away with discipline. i try to liken it to how i would discipline my dogs or my children if i had any. i smacked bum is one thing but booting them in the stomach is a completely different kettle of fish. so yes, my dogs get a smacked bum when they do something naughty and on occasion so will my horses if they need it. i wouldnt smack my dogs on the face or punch them in the shoulder so i wont with my horses either.

what im trying to say in my long winded way is yes, sometimes a smack may hurt them a little but no more than the wooden spoon mum broke on my butt once as with humans and other animals abuse only comes into play when repeated and unecessarily tough physical discpline comes into play.

kickshaw - please dont leave the forum because of all this. you are entitled to your opinion without fear of people taking things you say out of context and running you down for it. unfortunately it happens too much that people think they have to change someones mind rather than expressing their opinion and leaving it at that. try and ignore these types of comments and dont take them too personally. as long as you are not over physically disciplining your horse then take these peoples words with a pinch of salt. im not referring to their comments all the time just these ones

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post #46 of 69 Old 06-03-2008, 11:47 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Hurting Horses?

Quote:
Originally Posted by My2Geldings
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jubilee Rose
I was talking to my barn manager and she thinks that humans can't really hurt horses. She thinks that horses are so big and powerful that we can't really hurt them by coming onto them physically. She also brought up how horses take a lot of bangs, scrapes, kicks, bites, etc from other horses. By the way, she takes good care of her horses, so don't worry about that. But I tend to disagree. Yes horses are big and strong, but I think we can hurt them. What do you guys think??
To put it blunty, and nothing personal towards you, I think you're trainer is ridiculous. Animal or horse abuse doesn't just mean "if you don't hurt it, then it's ok". Raising your voice is plenty enough to mentally injure a lot of horses. A smack given at the wrong time for no good reason is enough to mentally injure an animal.

If your trainer were right, we wouldn't have to deal with abused and mishandled horses.
She isn't my trainer, just the barn manager. And I think she meant in terms of discipline such as giving a horse a good swat when they deserve it. She does not abuse her horses or condone abuse.

"'For I know the plans I have for you,' declares the Lord. 'Plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you a hope and a future'" ~ Jeremiah 29:11



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post #47 of 69 Old 06-04-2008, 01:08 AM
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Quote:
And I think she meant in terms of discipline such as giving a horse a good swat when they deserve it.
not picking on you or your barn manager but ...just about the statment as i have heard many people use it before.
The one reason i think actually hitting or kicking or whatever as a way of disapline is incorrect is because of this statment. A horse doesnt deserve it, ever, every action it does is a reaction to what the human has done or to somthing in its immediate surroundings.
Purely done from what it has or hasnt been taught at present. for example: If a horse is pushy it doesnt deserve a kick in the gut to make it get out of your space, it would have been taught to be that way so it shouldnt be punished for someone elses mistake. And while a horse may kick at purhaps a pushy horse to get it out of its space , it doesnt give us the right to do the same. As like i said before there would be many other warning signs us humas would miss before hand.

But im not saying im all high and mighty , as yes i have hit a horse before, but that was in the past , i have now changed and learnt new ways to deal with problems that arise. As hitting doesnt solve the problem to do that you have to find out what caused it and prevent it from happening again, not try and ' quick fix ' it afterwards.

And another thing to concider, horses and many other animals dont show pain the same way humans do. A horse is a prey animal if it shows to much if any pain it is sure to fall prey to predators....as its instincts tell it.

heh woops i got a bit off topic tho, wasnt about disipline...was about being able to hurt them but i just wanted to say that :roll: .

this is a very intreaging topic tho i must say, and some good points brought up too.
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post #48 of 69 Old 06-04-2008, 07:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amightytarzan5
You said what I wanted to say Duma, but I couldn't find the words.

Quote:
Kicking a horse in my opinion is unacceptable. You could easily put your foot through a horses stomach! I once heard of a filly who was tied up in a yard and some idiot left a broom by her on the floor, she trod on the broom head and the handle flicked up and punctured her belly, she later died! If a broom can do that, imagine what a foot can do!!
She was a filly; she probably wasn't fully developed. I would never kick a horse, much less a filly. But I don't find it unacceptable. I'm going to defend my friends.
Doesn't matter whether she was a filly, mare, gelding or stallion, it is still unacceptable to kick a horse imo! But then again, I never use any form a physical punishment to disicpline my horse, and she respects me. Like Spirithorse, said, you can hurt a horse mentally, they are such sensitive creatures.

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post #49 of 69 Old 06-04-2008, 10:47 AM
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I believe yes you can hurt a horse physically and mentally.
Disciplining a horse isn't any different than disciplining children. If the discipline is done out of anger or frustration, you can hurt the horse whether you smack it, kick it, with hold food & water or anything else. When that line is crossed and the punishment is not a "controlled" action, it then becomes painful and becomes abuse.
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post #50 of 69 Old 06-04-2008, 10:56 AM
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I don't want to get in trouble but since I'm always in trouble anyway...

My first horse, Pistol, was an abuse case so I never ever hit him, or smacked him... or disciplined him... I didn't want to "hurt" him. he's 24 now and I still love him like crazy, but now that I have 5 other horses and see what a little bit of discipline can do, I know that I did not do him any favors. He doesnt stand, he walks all over me, he has no respect for people, he'll run you over (he will not kick or bite) he's not mean or aggressive, he is just bigger and he knows it.

My other horse came to me trained and they are patient and kind and quiet and they know how to behave. Somebody spent alot of time on the ground with them, disciplining and training. My baby, is much much better behaved then Pistol, but I still opted to send him to a trainer because I'm not "mean" enough... That is what many people tell me, I love on them and I hug on them and I need help with the discipline part because I'm a wuss. I hate to snatch the leadshank or smack the chest, but I've been learning how to do it, and it doesnt hurt them mentally or physically when done properly. I geuss I'm just trying to say that I understand everyones feelings but also, for those that are a little more inexperienced or new horse owners, know that you do need to discipline in some ways. YOU NEED IT. Just like with children, they need rules and they need to know there are consequences to actions....
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