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Hurting Horses?

This is a discussion on Hurting Horses? within the Horse Training forums, part of the Training Horses category
  • With perrill training does that mean your horse will never miss behave
  • What do bloshy children mean?

 
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    06-04-2008, 01:42 PM
  #51
Started
I completely agree with Bitless! Well said!
     
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    06-04-2008, 04:14 PM
  #52
Green Broke
Quote:
I geuss I'm just trying to say that I understand everyones feelings but also, for those that are a little more inexperienced or new horse owners, know that you do need to discipline in some ways. YOU NEED IT. Just like with children, they need rules and they need to know there are consequences to actions....
agreed. But that line of discipline vs. "too rough" (especially for inexperienced or new horse owners) is superfine!
     
    06-04-2008, 05:59 PM
  #53
Foal
I also completely agree with Bitless!!
     
    06-04-2008, 06:15 PM
  #54
Weanling
I agree kickshaw and farmpony 84. Well said to both.
     
    06-05-2008, 07:51 AM
  #55
Showing
Quote:
Originally Posted by farmpony84
My other horse came to me trained and they are patient and kind and quiet and they know how to behave. Somebody spent alot of time on the ground with them, disciplining and training. My baby, is much much better behaved then Pistol, but I still opted to send him to a trainer because I'm not "mean" enough... That is what many people tell me, I love on them and I hug on them and I need help with the discipline part because I'm a wuss. I hate to snatch the leadshank or smack the chest, but I've been learning how to do it, and it doesnt hurt them mentally or physically when done properly. I geuss I'm just trying to say that I understand everyones feelings but also, for those that are a little more inexperienced or new horse owners, know that you do need to discipline in some ways. YOU NEED IT. Just like with children, they need rules and they need to know there are consequences to actions....
Can't agree more with it. I got my first horse and was all just love about her: "oh, she's so sensitive, she'll hate me if I smack her..." and so on. In one year I ended up with the beast who tried to strike at me when she wanted something and I tried to stop her from that (like grazing), and bunch of other disrespect towards people in general and me in particular.That's where the discipline came in place (just had NO other choice, or I should send her to trainer who can be as mean as they need to be).
     
    06-05-2008, 10:24 AM
  #56
Foal
Depends how you mean, if you mean animal cruelty hitting them with objects etc then yes. But if a slight slap for biting you or something then no.

I know a very big horseman who probably knows more about horses and had more experience than all of us on here put together and discipline and punishment needs to be put in place to gain respect from your horse or it will walk all over you.
     
    06-05-2008, 10:30 AM
  #57
Foal
Quote:
Originally Posted by kitten_Val
I'd say it depends a lot on what she meant by "hurting". For example some people smack horse when horse try to bite. Is is going to hurt the horse - no. But it'll be unpleasant and bossy and will teach horse. I've seen people turning back on horse and kicking at them to show who's the boss. Will it hurt the horse if you do it with sport shoe on - I don't think so (of course I'm not talking about kicking horse, say, in private parts or something, or doing it really hard). On the other side there is such thing as cruelty, when horse CAN be really hurt intentionally (say beat up with the whip and so on).

I knew the guy who said same thing as your barn owner. But he meant that if you smack the horse as panishment it's not going to hurt it. He didn't mean cruelty at all (very gentle with animals guy, btw).


I agree with you, horses need discipline and sometimes a slight swipe for biting etc to gain respect for you if not they will walk all over you!
     
    06-05-2008, 11:50 AM
  #58
Foal
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bitless
Quote:
And I think she meant in terms of discipline such as giving a horse a good swat when they deserve it.
not picking on you or your barn manager but ...just about the statment as I have heard many people use it before.
The one reason I think actually hitting or kicking or whatever as a way of disapline is incorrect is because of this statment. A horse doesnt deserve it, ever, every action it does is a reaction to what the human has done or to somthing in its immediate surroundings.
Purely done from what it has or hasnt been taught at present. For example: If a horse is pushy it doesnt deserve a kick in the gut to make it get out of your space, it would have been taught to be that way so it shouldnt be punished for someone elses mistake. And while a horse may kick at purhaps a pushy horse to get it out of its space , it doesnt give us the right to do the same. As like I said before there would be many other warning signs us humas would miss before hand.

But im not saying im all high and mighty , as yes I have hit a horse before, but that was in the past , I have now changed and learnt new ways to deal with problems that arise. As hitting doesnt solve the problem to do that you have to find out what caused it and prevent it from happening again, not try and ' quick fix ' it afterwards.

And another thing to concider, horses and many other animals don't show pain the same way humans do. A horse is a prey animal if it shows to much if any pain it is sure to fall prey to predators....as its instincts tell it.

Heh woops I got a bit off topic tho, wasnt about disipline...was about being able to hurt them but I just wanted to say that :roll: .

This is a very intreaging topic tho I must say, and some good points brought up too.
I don't think that a smack with the whip on the ass for being naughty could do a horse much harm!!
     
    06-05-2008, 11:51 AM
  #59
Foal
Quote:
Originally Posted by purple duck
Quote:
Originally Posted by kitten_Val
I'd say it depends a lot on what she meant by "hurting". For example some people smack horse when horse try to bite. Is is going to hurt the horse - no. But it'll be unpleasant and bossy and will teach horse. I've seen people turning back on horse and kicking at them to show who's the boss. Will it hurt the horse if you do it with sport shoe on - I don't think so (of course I'm not talking about kicking horse, say, in private parts or something, or doing it really hard). On the other side there is such thing as cruelty, when horse CAN be really hurt intentionally (say beat up with the whip and so on).

I knew the guy who said same thing as your barn owner. But he meant that if you smack the horse as panishment it's not going to hurt it. He didn't mean cruelty at all (very gentle with animals guy, btw).


I agree with you, horses need discipline and sometimes a slight swipe for biting etc to gain respect for you if not they will walk all over you!
If I can just butt in, smacking a horse isn't getting their respect. Respect is earned not demanded and ok a horse might behave after you give it a swipe, but that doesn't mean they respect you. I am a firm believer in violence is never the answer. If you think about it, horses don't actually punish each other, they keep each other in line, yes but they don't tell each other off, so horses don't actually understand punishment. They learn from asscociating things and they respond better to reward and positive reinforcement. My mare used to be really bloshy and bargy when I first got her and I will admit I use to smack her, but then I stopped and realised it wasn't working, so instead if she barged me, I made her back up, so she asscociated barging with hard work and since then he hasn't done it. I use Monty Robert's techiques and they are fantastic. You have to make it easy for the horse to do right and hard for them to do wrong.

Ok i'll get off my soapbox
     
    06-05-2008, 12:07 PM
  #60
Foal
Quote:
Originally Posted by LuLu
Quote:
Originally Posted by purple duck
Quote:
Originally Posted by kitten_Val
I'd say it depends a lot on what she meant by "hurting". For example some people smack horse when horse try to bite. Is is going to hurt the horse - no. But it'll be unpleasant and bossy and will teach horse. I've seen people turning back on horse and kicking at them to show who's the boss. Will it hurt the horse if you do it with sport shoe on - I don't think so (of course I'm not talking about kicking horse, say, in private parts or something, or doing it really hard). On the other side there is such thing as cruelty, when horse CAN be really hurt intentionally (say beat up with the whip and so on).

I knew the guy who said same thing as your barn owner. But he meant that if you smack the horse as panishment it's not going to hurt it. He didn't mean cruelty at all (very gentle with animals guy, btw).


I agree with you, horses need discipline and sometimes a slight swipe for biting etc to gain respect for you if not they will walk all over you!
If I can just butt in, smacking a horse isn't getting their respect. Respect is earned not demanded and ok a horse might behave after you give it a swipe, but that doesn't mean they respect you. I am a firm believer in violence is never the answer. If you think about it, horses don't actually punish each other, they keep each other in line, yes but they don't tell each other off, so horses don't actually understand punishment. They learn from asscociating things and they respond better to reward and positive reinforcement. My mare used to be really bloshy and bargy when I first got her and I will admit I use to smack her, but then I stopped and realised it wasn't working, so instead if she barged me, I made her back up, so she asscociated barging with hard work and since then he hasn't done it. I use Monty Robert's techiques and they are fantastic. You have to make it easy for the horse to do right and hard for them to do wrong.

Ok i'll get off my soapbox
I see what your saying but it works for me so I would rather listen to my more experienced 60 year old friend who has been riding since the age of 3 and has more horses than Appleby!! Who knows more about horses than me and you!!

I don't smack my horse for being bolshy I speak firmly and push him back but if the little sod bites me, he will get a swipe!!
     

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