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Hurting Horses?

This is a discussion on Hurting Horses? within the Horse Training forums, part of the Training Horses category

     
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        06-05-2008, 11:30 AM
      #61
    Foal
    Re: Hurting Horses?

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Jubilee Rose
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by My2Geldings
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Jubilee Rose
    I was talking to my barn manager and she thinks that humans can't really hurt horses. She thinks that horses are so big and powerful that we can't really hurt them by coming onto them physically. She also brought up how horses take a lot of bangs, scrapes, kicks, bites, etc from other horses. By the way, she takes good care of her horses, so don't worry about that. But I tend to disagree. Yes horses are big and strong, but I think we can hurt them. What do you guys think??
    To put it blunty, and nothing personal towards you, I think you're trainer is ridiculous. Animal or horse abuse doesn't just mean "if you don't hurt it, then it's ok". Raising your voice is plenty enough to mentally injure a lot of horses. A smack given at the wrong time for no good reason is enough to mentally injure an animal.

    If your trainer were right, we wouldn't have to deal with abused and mishandled horses.
    She isn't my trainer, just the barn manager. And I think she meant in terms of discipline such as giving a horse a good swat when they deserve it. She does not abuse her horses or condone abuse.
    You have started something here!!!!!!
         
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        06-06-2008, 06:32 AM
      #62
    Foal
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by purple duck
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by LuLu
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by purple duck
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by kitten_Val
    I'd say it depends a lot on what she meant by "hurting". For example some people smack horse when horse try to bite. Is is going to hurt the horse - no. But it'll be unpleasant and bossy and will teach horse. I've seen people turning back on horse and kicking at them to show who's the boss. Will it hurt the horse if you do it with sport shoe on - I don't think so (of course I'm not talking about kicking horse, say, in private parts or something, or doing it really hard). On the other side there is such thing as cruelty, when horse CAN be really hurt intentionally (say beat up with the whip and so on).

    I knew the guy who said same thing as your barn owner. But he meant that if you smack the horse as panishment it's not going to hurt it. He didn't mean cruelty at all (very gentle with animals guy, btw).


    I agree with you, horses need discipline and sometimes a slight swipe for biting etc to gain respect for you if not they will walk all over you!
    If I can just butt in, smacking a horse isn't getting their respect. Respect is earned not demanded and ok a horse might behave after you give it a swipe, but that doesn't mean they respect you. I am a firm believer in violence is never the answer. If you think about it, horses don't actually punish each other, they keep each other in line, yes but they don't tell each other off, so horses don't actually understand punishment. They learn from asscociating things and they respond better to reward and positive reinforcement. My mare used to be really bloshy and bargy when I first got her and I will admit I use to smack her, but then I stopped and realised it wasn't working, so instead if she barged me, I made her back up, so she asscociated barging with hard work and since then he hasn't done it. I use Monty Robert's techiques and they are fantastic. You have to make it easy for the horse to do right and hard for them to do wrong.

    Ok i'll get off my soapbox
    I see what your saying but it works for me so I would rather listen to my more experienced 60 year old friend who has been riding since the age of 3 and has more horses than Appleby!! Who knows more about horses than me and you!!

    I don't smack my horse for being bolshy I speak firmly and push him back but if the little sod bites me, he will get a swipe!!
    Well, whatever works for you and your horse, I just hate seeing horse being smacked.
         
        06-06-2008, 08:17 AM
      #63
    Showing
    I think there needs to be a definition made between smack, tap, bump and BAM TO THE MOON
    I have tapped, bumped and occasionally a smack. Never a BAM
    Its the BAM's that I think everyone is controversial about.
    You have to do a tap, that's the basis for even natural horsemanship. Use your carrot stick and tap progressively harder till a correct response in achieved. Right?
         
        06-06-2008, 08:26 AM
      #64
    Super Moderator
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Vidaloco
    I think there needs to be a definition made between smack, tap, bump and BAM TO THE MOON
    I have tapped, bumped and occasionally a smack. Never a BAM
    Its the BAM's that I think everyone is controversial about.
    You have to do a tap, that's the basis for even natural horsemanship. Use your carrot stick and tap progressively harder till a correct response in achieved. Right?
    THANKYOU! It kind of upsets me that everyone starts screaming abuse when we discuss things... I agree abuse is an issue that should be covered but....I'm curious how common it really is??? We should probably start another topic huh???
         
        06-06-2008, 08:57 AM
      #65
    Foal
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by farmpony84
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Vidaloco
    I think there needs to be a definition made between smack, tap, bump and BAM TO THE MOON
    I have tapped, bumped and occasionally a smack. Never a BAM
    Its the BAM's that I think everyone is controversial about.
    You have to do a tap, that's the basis for even natural horsemanship. Use your carrot stick and tap progressively harder till a correct response in achieved. Right?
    THANKYOU! It kind of upsets me that everyone starts screaming abuse when we discuss things... I agree abuse is an issue that should be covered but....I'm curious how common it really is??? We should probably start another topic huh???
    Yes start another topic!! The tap, smack , BAM thing should of been discussed earlier I feel!!! I have never done a BAM!!

    Have any of you heard about the black and white cobs being stolen in England? Just a word of mouth so far, I haven't heard any hard evidence!!!!
         
        06-06-2008, 01:58 PM
      #66
    Started
    Oh boy.

    I regret making this post. I didn't mean to cause so much trouble.
         
        06-06-2008, 09:13 PM
      #67
    Foal
    Jubilee Rose

    For me your post has been very educational. I'm hoping with the riding lessons I take that I'll be taught how to get the behavior I want from my horse and how to correct it with out anger.


    For example if you watch Cesar Milan (The Dog Whisperer) he will some times take his hand with his fingers spread and grasp the dog. It does not hurt the dog but stimulates a bite. The dog understands that language and Cesar is not doing it out of personal frustration or anger but to teach the dog.

    I've been using his techniques with my own dogs learning to read their body language and using my body as a tool to train them. I'm really hoping with Natural Horsemanship that it will look the same way. I don't want to hurt or scare my horse when I get one. I want a relationship based on trust.

    I think this is a very philosophical debate about discipline and I can see everyone side. And I get the feeling that in this thread everyone is crazy in love with their horse.
         
        06-07-2008, 07:27 AM
      #68
    Showing
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Jubilee Rose
    Oh boy.

    I regret making this post. I didn't mean to cause so much trouble.
    No regrets Jubilee, I know you are fairly new to the forum Let me assure you this sort of "debate" goes on all the time. I too think its a helpful thing to have different opinion. Someone new to horses can read it an see that there is more than one way to deal with a horse.
         
        06-07-2008, 10:34 AM
      #69
    Started
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Vidaloco
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Jubilee Rose
    Oh boy.

    I regret making this post. I didn't mean to cause so much trouble.
    No regrets Jubilee, I know you are fairly new to the forum Let me assure you this sort of "debate" goes on all the time. I too think its a helpful thing to have different opinion. Someone new to horses can read it an see that there is more than one way to deal with a horse.
    Ok. Thanks Vida.
         

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