The hypocrisy of Natural Horsemanship - Page 2 - The Horse Forum
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post #11 of 69 Old 08-11-2012, 12:03 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Cherie View Post
I mostly agree. But, I do think there are better male riders than CA. They are trainers first and clinicians second (or not at all). Men like Al Dunning, Les Vogt, Bob Avila, etc.
Just to clarify, I was talking about riding (as far as having a good seat). I don't think he can out-train these guys at all
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post #12 of 69 Old 08-11-2012, 01:22 AM
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I am not a 'natural' fan, there are a lot of things I do not like about CAs methods - chasing a horse around on a very tight circle for one thing. Mostly I dislike the 'my way or no way' hype.

I have started hundreds of horses, most are easy if handles correctly, so me will question why certain things are being done and very few, hate the idea. All are different.

What CA has is the ability to read the minute body language signs and correct before things happen. That is all.
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post #13 of 69 Old 08-11-2012, 07:23 AM
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I know this is wrong of me, but the clip in the video of the horse chasing the woman around the round pen, had me rolling with laughter.
Me Too!

He just wants one more treat! Maybe she did not pet him and scratch him in the right place. He really isn't trying to hurt her.
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post #14 of 69 Old 08-11-2012, 07:47 AM
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The woman getting chased - this was her fault. Inexperienced people will run if a horse approaches boldly, thinking it will run over them, rather than step toward the horse with arms up. Horses don't like to get hit in the face and will veer away. This is handler error. If it happens again the horse has an aha moment and turns it into a game and realizes it can chase it's handler away because of her lower rank. In the video we are seeing this in action. In time he becomes dangerous and he continues to assert his dominance.
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post #15 of 69 Old 08-11-2012, 08:50 AM
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It is wrong of me as well AlexS but I have to admit I laughed as well.

I personally don't see anything wrong with the way that CA describes cowboys, I wish I could set my fear aside and get on a horse and ride it out lol it's because of my healthy fear and others as well that horses become spoiled babies that tell us what to do.

In the beginning when I first started out the lunge whip looked like a torture device. I put my own feelings inside of the horses head and that is a mistake.

I actually thought that you get on a horse and let them have their buck on when they stop then they are trained lmbo man I was so naive. I thought that natural horsemanship was the long way around the mountain for people who were afraid to hit the dirt.

It wasn't until my gelding would lift his leg like he was going to kick out at me that I finally wised up and said enough.

Without people like CA I would never have been able to get past a lot of stuff. I'm not going to lie, the more that I'm entertained. the more, I pay attention when watching shows and video's.

The only difference I see to the cowboy way vs natural horsemanship is one puts the stress on the horse from the saddle and the other from the ground. So when CA says that the cowboy days are over I take it as a lot of people aren't cowboys and they need another method to be able to take control of a horse and ride.
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post #16 of 69 Old 08-11-2012, 10:44 AM
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That stigma will always be placed on cowboys, just like Dressage or Show Jumpers are stuck up princesses spending daddys money, team ropers whip their horses everytime they miss and all barrel horses are crazy and out of control.

Even back when the times, the horses and the people were tougher there was an appreciation for the ranch horse. There is a book written by the late Will James from the 40s called "Horses I Have Known".
When he speaks about the tough dirty ones there is admiration for them. Granted Will had the tendency to over exaggerate in his stories but you get the point.
I consisder my husband to be a good cowboy, and the one thing that I have noticed about good cowboys that I admire is the ability to see the good in all their horses. My husband can appreciate and can find something good in every horse he rides rather than pick them apart. He had horses that would try to peel out about the time he would get something roped, he would take a few turns, sit on his coils and let them hit the end. Instead of getting mad and harpoon the **** out him, he would just giggle get by the best he could and love the things the horses did well.

Ranch horses may not be rewarded in cookies and lengthy grooming sessions, but after a long hot day of mashing cows we might unsaddle in the shade give them a drink from the ditch, before making the long trot back to trailer were the ice chest awaits on the back of the flat bed. And that is enough for them.

Abuse simply isn't tolerated. Even riding a sore or lame horse is a big no no as as owning a saddle that will sore a horses back. Bsms, if the guy that did that to your horse worked anywhere that I know of he would of been ****canned in a hurry. Word gets around quick and he wouldn't of been able to work anywhere within earshot.

I am not saying that cowboying is all butterflies and sunshine. They expect a lot out of the horses, but they appreciate it too. A cowboy in the simplest terms is a caretaker of livestock. Horses are not only livestock but a partner.


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post #17 of 69 Old 08-11-2012, 11:13 AM
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Training.. is not about conflict.. it is about applying pressure to get a response. If you don't know when to apply the pressure, how to apply pressure or how much pressure is needed you won't train the horse. To know that you have to be able to read the horse.

I never heard of "Natural Horsemanship" until I got looking at some on line stuff.

I just trained the horse.....
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post #18 of 69 Old 08-11-2012, 11:20 AM
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Well now I don't feel bad about laughing when the horse was chasing the lady. I laughed too. It was like the horse was using NH methods on HER to establish his dominance by keeping her feet moving.
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post #19 of 69 Old 08-11-2012, 11:34 AM
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My biggest problem with NH is how people I've known take to it. They mostly do two things. Get militant about any punishment to a horse no matter how mild. Second is treat and train their horse like a giant dog they dont ride. Which brings up another point, most people I know that have gotten into NH are afraid to ride.

Back to the dog thing. If you're going to train and treat your horse like a dog then go get a dog. They are a heap cheaper to buy, keep and feed. Then you also don't have to fend off questions from people on why you are not hopping on their back and riding instead.
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post #20 of 69 Old 08-11-2012, 11:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Cherie View Post
Me Too!

He just wants one more treat! Maybe she did not pet him and scratch him in the right place. He really isn't trying to hurt her.
Totally off topic... But when I was a kid and was bad, my Mum would do the 'wait til your Dad gets home thing'. My sister and I would run to the far side of the dining room table and wait there, Dad would chase us around the table, pulling out chairs to slow us down before we finally got our wallop, which would of course be harder because we had just peed him off too. It never worked too well for me.
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