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The hypocrisy of Natural Horsemanship

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  • Trainer hypocricy

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    08-12-2012, 03:58 PM
  #31
Weanling
Biggest difference I see between NH and "cowboys" is: the old-fashioned cowboy follows tradition (noting that "buck and spur" is not being everyone's idea of tradition; but I've seen training like that, and successfully too) and NH follows the horse's nature. So while both can be effective, the NH trainer has more options, since he adapts his methods to each particular horse. Of course he can judge wrongly; and cowboys aren't totally insensitive; but just in general, that's how I see it.

(I'm afraid I had to laugh looking at that young man's expression..."The worst that can happen. . .")
     
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    08-12-2012, 04:55 PM
  #32
Weanling
Since each and every horse is different it takes different ways of getting the training across to the horse. Personally I prefer a way that teaches respect and trust in me but the horse never looses it's spirit nor it's horse sense.
     
    08-12-2012, 05:07 PM
  #33
Foal
Okay I haven't read all of the replies, so I'm just responding to the OP. That is not Clinton bucking out those horses, those are showing the problem horses and how they behave with their owners. Clinton does not get on horses until they've had a lot of groundwork done. Same goes for the horse crashing into the fence, that is the man with dark hair that gets interviewed.

Secondly, I don't see how that was "bashing" cowboys. He said "the traditional cowboy way" and by that he refers to how cowboys USED TO just buck out horses, he's not claiming that that is what all cowboys people do now. Also, he said that that time is over, meaning it is in the past and he is not referring to modern cowboys. Either way, just getting on a horse and bucking them out IS wrong and it was good for him to say that.

Finally, Clinton has no problem being a physical with a horse because he believes in safety. You CAN NOT let a horse get away with kicking out at you or not moving his feet when you tell them because that leads to getting hurt. And of course he has to use a whip, otherwise he'd have to get way too close and be much less effective.

I just spent last weekend at his tour for two days. This video does no justice, so I can understand jumping to conclusions. Clinton's method stresses preperation before getting on a horse and not letting a horse become dangerous.
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    08-12-2012, 05:11 PM
  #34
Foal
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinyliny    
I agree with Cherie; CA is by no means the best male rider out there.

And his ego is just about as big as Australia. If I were a horse, I'd rather be the horse trained and ridden by Chris Cox or Buck Branaman than the one trained/ridden by CA.
He said plainly that he is NOT the best rider. He said he doesn't even have natural talent at training horses or riding, but he's good at training people. That's why he's a clinician and not a horse trainer.

As for the ego... I'd agree haha. But that's why I enjoy listening to him, he seems very sure of himself and he's hilarious. I'd have a huge ego too if I were him.

Edit: He didn't say that in the video, but he said it on his tour.
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    08-12-2012, 05:34 PM
  #35
Weanling
I think most reliable training is not so much horse but people training. If I remember right when I saw Buck he also had to train and work with the owners and the owners worked with the horses. This is true of training with dogs. My sister had a beautiful German Shepard who she sent to be trained but she didn't have any part in the training and when the dog came home all she did was complain the dog wasn't trained and she couldn't handle her. I took the dog out for a walk and she had been wonderfully trained. When I came back with the dog I told her it wasn't the dog it was her. Same goes with our horse Toby I had our friend and trainer try her out and he said he had very good training and agreed with me that the problems our granddaughter was having was her and she needed to be trained to be able to work with her so that Toby would respond the way our granddaughter wanted.
     
    08-12-2012, 06:04 PM
  #36
Green Broke
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beling    
Biggest difference I see between NH and "cowboys" is: the old-fashioned cowboy follows tradition (noting that "buck and spur" is not being everyone's idea of tradition; but I've seen training like that, and successfully too) and NH follows the horse's nature. So while both can be effective, the NH trainer has more options, since he adapts his methods to each particular horse. Of course he can judge wrongly; and cowboys aren't totally insensitive; but just in general, that's how I see it.

(I'm afraid I had to laugh looking at that young man's expression..."The worst that can happen. . .")
*sigh*

Cowboys never have, nor do they now, train that way. Owning a hat does not a cowboy make. Sometimes I wish there was a test one has to pass in order to dress western.
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    08-12-2012, 06:14 PM
  #37
Weanling
Right I agree.
     
    08-12-2012, 10:57 PM
  #38
Foal
Watching the video of those horses makes me know how lucky I am with mine. They were both given to us by people that had too many horses on pasture and have turned out to be absolute sweetie pies on the ground. I just got my round pen finished and am slowly working to getting in the saddle. (both are broke to a snaffle and have been ridden fine, it's me on the learning curve and I figure starting out on the ground is better than in the saddle). I don't know if you'd call what I'm doing "natural" horsemanship, but we sure are having a good time. :)
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    08-12-2012, 11:33 PM
  #39
Yearling
Have only read the OP's posting + about 5 in, so I apologize ahead of time if I'm being repetitious ...

I have come on HF & put about 6 (maybe?) lengthy posts about BB and that is about it. I have NO--be clear--NO attachment to the "NH" title that many folks put on their training styles or others have put on the style for them...I simply feel that from what I've SEEN, the training methodologies WORK 99% of the time, with a lot of effort, commitment, & thought involved. (By the way, I am ALL for saddles, bridles, bits, & horseshoes...doesn't matter. If these things are necessary to the job the horse must do/the discipline I intend the horse for, then they will all be used and guilt-free!)...I agree vehemently with the posters who have said that almost NOTHING humans do with horses is "natural"...thus, why must the TRAINING METHODOLOGY BE LABELED SUCH??

Couldn't care less if they labeled "what they do" with these horses, "Mickey Mouse Bull--it Crap Horse Training"...if it WORKS, I'm ALL FOR IT!

Too many folks, I believe, get caught up in the title/the whole "NH MOVEMENT" & stand behind it thinking, "He called it NH so it's warm and fuzzy and NATURAL AND GRANOLA!" That is CRAP, IMO.

I don't like any trainer dissing another, feel it is unprofessional and unnecessary. Allow YOUR WORK TO STAND ON IT'S OWN...that is all that is needed.

The rest of it is marketing and absolutely unrelated to anything that matters to me or any (future) horse I will train or ride. I'll NOT "drink the kook-aide", but I will use some methods and will respect some aspects of various trainers' teachings.

Best to all! B2H :0)
     
    08-13-2012, 12:12 AM
  #40
Weanling
I personally like to think of myself as a happy medium between NH and the opposite. I like and use the idea of working with a horse, not dominating him and intimidating him to work, but at the same time, Parellis load of horse manure that he somehow manages to sell makes me worry for the future of the horseworld, so I think both sides have their ups and downs,,...
     

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