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I need some advice!

3K views 25 replies 9 participants last post by  Dumas'_Grrrl 
#1 ·
We went out to see our horse this afternoon and realized that the lack of attention she has had this winter has not been a good thing - she's getting naughty! I need to re-establish some respect with her and I need some advice on how to do this. First off I was holding her today while my daughter was brushing her (Normally we put her in the cross ties but some snow slid off the barn roof earlier in the day and spooked all the horses and I didn't want her to spook and flip) and she started nudging me with her nose. She has never done this before so I would say "quit!" and give her a firm, but gentle pop (jerk) with the lead rope and she soon realized that this was a no-no.

After we brushed her my daughter took her out in the pasture for about 15 minutes of ground work, mostly walking/stopping, trotting/stopping, keeping our space in the meantime. Lily was wonderful during this time. She was very obedient with my daughter and well behaved. Shortly after we were done it was turn-out time. The horses were wild out there! Galloping, bucking, trotting, snorting - they were really full of it but having a wonderful time!

Then a couple of hours later when we were bringing the horses in for dinner she almost plowed me over to get into the barn! I was opening the barn door and she started to crowd me so I made her step back and as soon as I opened the door a little more she barged right in! She's never done anything like this before so I want to nip it ASAP!

I'm open to any advice!
 
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#2 ·
Did you bring her in alone? (ie without any other horses, if you didn't I would suggest bringing her in alone until you solve this problem) If you did, as soon as she crowds you I would have her back up (not just step back) for maybe 4 to 6 strides, then go to the door again and if she crowds you repeat the process, repeat it as many times as you need to until she is staying at a "polite" distance and waiting for you to ask her forward.
 
#3 ·
Hi I agree you need to nip this in the bud.My mare years ago did the same to me . I solved this by going back to basics ie ground work- making her back up go forward backwards ect at my command.Also i did pole work with her.Good luck and never be afraid to get in an instructor to help with issuses.Bevie
 
#4 ·
Got2 - yes she was with other horses. Unfortunately, she currently lives with my MIL and I know my MIL will not put our horse out alone. In fact, I'm sure my MIL would never, ever take any training advice from me. If I know my MIL she'd intentionally NOT put my horse out alone just because I asked her to do so! She gets offended if I indicate that I have an idea and didn't ask her input or suggest that she do something different. She obviously doesn't have the answers to this though, because it is happening under her care! (OK, I'm done venting) However, I know I am truly to blame because we haven't been working with our horse much over the winter. The good news is that I'm working on moving our horse nearer to us and I'm not going to give up until it happens! :)

Bevie - I like the idea of doing ground work, as a matter of fact we were doing some of that today! We just did a little and very basic stuff. It was my daughter doing the work though. I'm going to try to work on only that this week and try to get this new situation under control.

What is pole work? Other than backing up is there any other exercises that you'd recommend?
 
#5 ·
if your leading her into the barn and she's getting pushy or rushing stop her, back her up a bunch of steps and then come to a halt. Do not take another step until she's standing quietly, you should be standing quietly as well. She'll take her cue from your body language. After she's been still for a minute or two start for the barn again. Wash, rinse and repeat as many times as needed. Once your at the door stop her again and wait for her to be quite. Once inside the barn stop again at her stall door and ask her to stand quietly. Go with her into the stall, ask her to drop her head so that you can remove the halter without any drama.

You want to her to get the idea that calm and quite is what's expected of her.

Additional ground work will reinforce who's in charge. Pole work is working over trotting poles. I use it to break the boredom of lunging.
 
#6 ·
Given how frisky she is, I would lunge her before anyone gets on. This will help take the edge off of your horse as well as helpt to re-establish her respect for your authority without you being in a vulnerable position.
Absolutely nip her pushiness in the bud. Do you have a chain on the lead line that you can put over her nose? The minute she starts getting forward or pushy, a light but stern correction should convey to her that what she's doing is unacceptable.
 
#7 ·
Personally, I wouldn't put a chain on her unless you need to. If I'm reading this right, she used to be good but has lost her respect due to lack of attention/enforcement. The other advice you have received I agree with. Also, you could make sure you always have something in your hand to use as a tool -- a lead line flipped in circles in front of her to back off, a crop, a long whip, even a feed bucket flipped up and out. If you have none of these one day and she gets in your face, use your arms and become BIG and IN HER SPACE. And never let anyone feed her until she has been given permission to advance.
 
#8 ·
Yes Northernmama you are reading this right. She has always had good ground manners, not perfect but good, so I have never been concerned. This is definitely new for her and I'm sure it's because of the lack of work this winter. Like I mentioned in my OP, when she started to nudge/push me with her nose while being groomed I was a little taken aback but started to say "QUIT!" give her a gentle, firm jerk on the lead line (no chain) with each nudge and after 3 or 4 of those she figured it out. In the past she has been a very sensitive horse so she was easy to correct if needed.

I'm not sure how to handle it when there is 3 horses all trying to get into the barn for dinner especially with Lily out in front! If I use a whip or something won't they just blast past me the second I point it down? How would I get them to walk in quietly? I'm thinking the halter might be my best bet.

Typically my MIL will bring them in for dinner by putting hay in the stalls and then opening the barn door so that they just come in (or rush in) and eat. I doubt very much that she has much control over the three horses when they come in. I know I won't be able to change my MIL's way of doing things so I will need to work around it as much as possible. I'm going to start going out there 3x a week so hopefully this will be enough to have some impact. I don't care how Lily acts around my MIL but I would like her to have more respect for me (and my daughter).

Also, I really want some groundwork ideas if anyone has any. In the past we have worked on walk/trot/stop, moving over, and backing up, but I'd like to do more. I'd love some ideas for some creative, fun and different exercises. To be honest I wouldn't mind spending more time doing groundwork than riding for the time being. I want to really establish some good solid respect and trust. Plus I think it would be very good for her mind.
 
#11 ·
I'm not sure how to handle it when there is 3 horses all trying to get into the barn for dinner especially with Lily out in front! If I use a whip or something won't they just blast past me the second I point it down? How would I get them to walk in quietly? I'm thinking the halter might be my best bet.
Well, seeing as you have to contend with MIL here, you may have some difficulties, but IMO there is no reason why you can't tell all the horses to BACK OFF until you say it's OK. I would keep the whip pointed down always until someone approaches that hasn't been invited yet. They should not associate the whip being down with permission to advance, but your body language and voice should be the permission.

A halter will work for one horse, but it gets difficult when you have several. My horses are trained to go to their "places" for feeding and until they do and stand quietly, they don't get their munchies. One goes to her dish and the other must come for her halter to be tied 'cause she's a bully! THey will learn what is repeated daily, but I dunno how you'll get MIL to follow your lead.
 
#9 ·
Your MIL, really does things the "cowboy way" doesn't she....LOL. I boarded at a barn that unbenounced to me that's how they brought the horses in. It took George about two weeks before he was trying to rush past me to get into his stall at dinner. He got a real shock the first time he tried to barge by me! They learn pretty quick who they can get away with things and who they can't. So you and your daughter keep at what your doing.

For ground work, if you've got some poles put them down in shapes. Like a "L", practice backing her through the L. You can use just one pole, get her front feet on one side and back on the other and have her side pass the length of the pole. Tarp training is fun. We start by putting some hay in the middle and let them figure it out on the own time. Like this:



Then this is what happens LOL:

 
#10 ·
LOL! Yes, my MIL is pretty "old school" and stubborn and outspoken as can be! Anyone who doesn't do it her way is an idiot and nobody knows as much as she does! It will be difficult to do some of the things I want because she will do her best from discouraging me if the idea doesn't come from her or isn't something she agrees with. She told me that I was wasting my time when I was going to try to get my horse used to things being rubbed on her body, like a plastic bag for example. Hopefully she won't do the same this time. If she does I need to just ignore her, but it's tough!

Well, I'm very encouraged that our horse will be able to reestablish respect for my daughter and me even if she doesn't have it with MIL.

Thanks for the pole idea! I know there is one at the barn and possibly 2 more, but at least we have another exercise to work on and keep things from getting too boring.
 
#12 ·
I have been doing some late night research and I think I have lots of fun groundwork ideas (in addition to some of the great ideas here!). Among a few of my new goals: more responsive leading (she backs/turns/stops when I/daughter backs/turns/stops, no lead line pressure applied), backing with a hand signal (hopefully this will prevent any future pushiness), getting used to scary stuff like tarps, bags, toys, etc.. I think Lily is great on a lead line, but after doing some research I know she can be much better with not too much effort. I actually think it will be fun work and there are enough goals to get us through a few months if not the entire summer. I making a list and we'll use poles, tarps, etc. and we can really mix up our routine and make it interesting and fun. I'm excited about this and I am going to start a journal on it so that we can look back and see our progress.

One challenge will be my MIL. She is very old school and anti anything remotely natural horsemanship (keep in mind that I'm using some nh ideas but I'm not following any one particular style - I'll just be open minded and see what works best with our horse). Not only that she is very verbal and outspoken. She thinks working with a horse on "scary stuff" is a stupid waste of time, nor is she a fan of groundwork per se. Lily can be a little spooky so I personally think this will be very beneficial for us. My MIL will usually comment that she's just being silly and that there is nothing to be afraid of. Wish me luck on this one! :-p
 
#14 ·
Gee G and K, I think my horses came from the same barn that your horses were at! :lol: Regularly scheduled stampede 2 x's a day!

It didn't take much work or very long for T and Walka to realize that rushing to the open stall was not going to be allowed with me. Did a lot of in hand work. Stop, back, rest ect.... and they were well mannered again.
 
#15 ·
UPDATE!! (warning, MIL vent included)

Well, we went over to have a ground work session this afternoon. Interesting day. Luckily we had access to the neighbors arena and beings that Lily was full of spit & vinegar and completely neurotic by the time we walked over there, we decided to lunge for a bit. MIL suggested that we start at the "scary end" of the arena and I thought this might be alright because we haven't been there in a while - maybe it wouldn't be as scary as it was in the past. It was still scary. Needless to say a scary place with a neurotic horse is not the best combo. Throw in a few of my MIL's "WHOOP-WHOOP"s in there and things really got fun. So much to Lily's delight I inched my way towards the "safe end" or at least to the point where she felt safe enough and would make a full circle and not try to jump in my pocket (about mid-way). She was full of energy and running like mad so I figured that she'd get tired and calm down and at that point we could inch our way back to the "scary end".

Now MIL is irritated and "firmly" telling me to stand my ground and not let Lily inch her way up. In other words I was doing this wrong and letting my horse walk all over me. Personally, I didn't see it that way and stuck to my guns. MIL then got so miffed that after a few other comments/opinions she told me "go ahead, it's your horse" and walked out of the arena and over to her pasture to check on her horses. Sure enough, while she was gone Lily got tired, calmed down and we were soon lunging in the "scary end" with absolutely no issues at all (this is a first ever for her!). Keep in mind that Lily is fairly out of shape so this really didn't take too long.

Next we spent about 15-20 minutes with my daughter leading her - walk/stop, trot/stop, backing up, going through cones, jogging around the scary end, etc. At one point Lily was doing great and stopped right when my daughter stopped, no "whoa" needed. MIL got miffed again.
"She didn't say "whoa"!"
"That's ok"" I said.
"What do you mean, she doesn't need to say "whoa"??!!" (ie who in their right mind would stop a horse without saying whoa?)
"No, if Lily stops when she stops that's fine."
And so on, and so on.

MIL got upset again, told me all I wanted to do is to argue with her and left the arena again. I guess I probably did get a bit defensive. She just has this way of treating you like you are an absolute idiot if you don't do things her way. AAARRRGGGHHH!!!

Whew! Vent over.

Opinions - was my logic fair in our lunging in/out of the scary place? I do realize that I may have just been being stubborn and standing my ground with MIL. Was I teaching my horse that she doesn't have to do as I ask? My gut feeling is that she was too full of energy at the start to be expected to behave and that as soon as she calmed down we did reach the ultimate goal without incidence so therefor it was successful.

As much as I don't want to cave to my MIL I really do want to do right by Lily so any opinions are greatly appreciated! :D
 
#16 ·
You did the right thing by approaching and retreating from the scary end of the arena. You followed your instincts! If you just leave the horse in the "deep end of the pool" things will NOT get better. They won't just get over it, the anxiety will keep building. Good for you for sticking up for Lily!
 
#18 ·
I see the MIL's point on the whoa issue...but really it's po-ta-toe/po-tah-toe.

I like a horse that will work off both verbal and body language cues. I'm sure Lily knows that whoa means stop. I really like the fact that Lily was watching your daughter for cues though too. That shows that she was respecting your daughter.

Keep doing what you're doing and I LOVE the fact that you realize that you may be being stubborn to what the MIL says because she's about a gentle as a cheese grater when it comes to tact. She's got her heart in the right place but her tounge needs work. :lol:

Keep what she says in mind and go about your training. Sounds like you're doing a fantastic job!!!

Let us know how things are going. Updates are great!!!
 
#20 ·
:lol: I have a MIL like that too..... She once told me that "Anyone that needs to read a book about horses shouldn't have one".

I just bit my tongue but wanted to tell her that I felt the same way about her cooking. (she has a prized collection of cook books)

But come to think of it.... You could probably ride her meatloaf too!!!
 
#23 ·
Thank you all so much for the encouraging/supportive words! It really is fun to work with Lily because she is very smart and a pleaser at heart. I forget how smart she is! We did a few exercises with her to see where she was at after the winter and she really is not too far off base, just getting a little pushy. I do realize that it would be helpful to have some concrete goals for the day, for example one calm pass in the "scary end of the arena", or one stop without "whoa" or lead line pressure. She definitely knows the word "whoa" already so we'll use that until she responds to her leader with ease. I also want to keep each exercise short so that she doesn't get too bored. One good thing about working with a 7 year old girl - when she gets bored doing the same ol' thing you know the horse must be getting bored also!

Dumas, sounds like you've met my MIL - you nailed her to a tee! Yes, she really does mean well at heart and she is a truly good person, but she is so controlling and sharp tongued that she is very difficult to work with. If you don't agree and do as she says she can be rather, um, "unpleasant" and she absolutely cannot see things any other way but her own!

I really appreciate all of the wonderful advice and opinions here on this forum. Other than my MIL I really don't know any knowledgeable horsey people near me that I can ask advice from (or vent for that matter :twisted:).

Thanks again and I'll be updating on our progress!!
 
#24 ·
Update - Lily is doing great! We have been doing groundwork with her 2-3x per week and her manners have come back to almost perfect! Today when it was turnout time we walked through the paddock together, no halter or anything, and if I stopped she stopped. When I opened up the gate to the pasture she waited where I told her to whoa and as soon as the gate was opened I called her in and she WALKED QUIETLY out in the pasture! She normally doesn't do this even if she is by herself (she likes to shoot out to the pasture)!

Thanks again for all of the good advice!
 
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