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Ideas on keep stubbern horse in canter?

6K views 11 replies 8 participants last post by  KezzaOfficial 
#1 ·
I have quite a green 5 year old that ive started schooling since april time. She's always been a little on the lazy side in the arena and she has a handful of tricks to get out of work.
But, one of the most annoying things is constently falling out of canter. Sometimes, she's hard to get into canter too. If i ask he to keep going when she slows down she just throws in a buck and then goes back to trot. I've got a couple of ideas (lots of bending work to keep her more balanced, kicking through the bucks ect) but i was wondering if any of you have any suggestions? She canters along the longside and shortside then stops!
I might have some videos somewhere if anybodys interested
Thanks!!
 
#2 ·
There are several things to think about in this situation.

First, you should ensure that the behavior of the horse is not the result of physical problems due to health. You should also consider the fitness level of this horse. Suppleness and strength are important factors in being able to canter well while carrying a rider.

Then, consider your own actions. The better you sit and move with a horse, the easier it is for a horse to perform the activities you require of it. If you are not well balanced and moving with the horse, you are making it harder for the horse to move.

Next, consider other factors. You want your horse moving in balance before asking for the canter. You don’t want the horse to fall into the canter and continue in an unbalanced fashion. Well executed half-halts can prove beneficial both in obtaining balance before the canter depart and throughout the movement.

Try to sense when the horse’s energy level is flagging or when it is becoming unbalanced. The half-halt should address the issue of balance. A re-cue should be used before the horse actually falls out of the canter. If the horse habitually falls out of the canter at a specific spot, re-cue just before you get to that spot. Try a more subtle form of cue to avoid a bucking protest.
 
#3 ·
How inexperienced is this horse? Does she know better, or is she simply green and not sure what you are asking? Has she always been this way, or has the behaviour deteriorated? Could you link us a video? I'm more interested in seeing the rider's methods, as there could be many things factoring in here. This mare sounds similar to a horse I used to own so I will give you the advice that worked for me. The issues came down to 100% rider fault with a testy horse that had my number due to lack of rider experience with correction rather than a horse who knew better.

Leg, leg, leg.

Try to feel when your horse is about to break out of the canter - choppy movement, barely picking up her feet, slower pace, etc. If she picks a particular spot to stop, then you have a few options: either take the spot away temporarily, or work her passed it. Try both.

If this is a lazy horse, get her moving. If she tries to stop and will not move, I find that turning their head in one direction and asking them to go usually succeeds in getting them to go forward. Get her trotting and do not let her walk until she canters for you. Stop going the full arena and just do half, keep your leg on until she is cantering at a pace you are satisfied with, then go full arena.

Be proactive about the areas she usually 'dies down', if she stops at a few places consistently. Add extra leg before you approach these areas and keep her bent to the inside. If she is getting angry at more leg and this is where the bucking is coming from, ask with a crop on the shoulder or in a different way. Do NOT let her cut corners or take any other shortcuts. Keep your inside leg strong and push her out to the rail. Ride like there are judges sitting in the bleachers, keeping the horse steering correctly and soft in the bridle. It may be that you are giving her too much leeway with other aspects as well and she is learning to take advantage of you, but I can't say.

I usually give my mare little breaks when she gets like this. Canter a few circles, then slow right down to a halt to reward any little amount of try. However, she is a very forward moving horse and I have no issue getting her moving again after stopping... For lazy horses, this may not be the most effective way as getting them to move forward can be daunting. I think the horse may need a bit more discipline and consistent correction for a while first though before you can try this successfully. The more correctly and consistently your rides are, the more improvement you will see over time. It should start to take less and less effort to get her corrected and listening to you, but do not expect a full 180 degree turnaround on the first day. It may take her a few weeks or months to completely drop this habit.

I'd work her hard then let her have a break if I was riding her, see how that works and then try the other approach. In my opinion she is giving herself enough breaks and making YOU do all the work - I think it's time she learned otherwise. If she knows better I'd make her work, no compromises - she'd only get rewarded if she does the job right.
 
#4 ·
Does she fall back to a trot evenly throughout the arena or is it in a specific spot?

How do you ask for each gait? I find that people with lazy horses tend to share a common rider error. Often, the rider anticipates that their horse will be lazy and uses quite a strong cue to ask their horse to go forward. This never teaches a horse to be softer because there is never a soft cue to start with. On the other hand, I see riders with any horses do the opposite. If a rider is worried about a protest they tend to nag and just keep asking their horse to move forward very softly. The same problem exists here, since you never increase the pressure to make that soft pressure the good deal, the horse remains dull to the leg.

Can you use a dressage whip on her without her protesting?

The first thing I would address before you worry about anything else is getting this mare more forward. Don't worry about particular gaits, just getting her in front of your leg.

You can not expect her to maintain good forward motion, if she is not forward in the first place.

I would start at the halt. Ask her to walk forward with a very soft squeeze of your calves. Do NOT allow a sluggish step forward where he just drags herself forward on the forehard to be acceptable. If she moves sluggishly (or not at all), then increase the pressure. Take your dressage whip and thump her behind your leg or on the hindquarters, then bump her more firmly, whack her, whack harder etc until she moves forward. If you can't use a whip on her, kick, go from a soft squeeze to bump with your calves, to kick, kick harder etc. It does not matter what gait she ends up in, a trot, or lope. You are applying pressure until you feel like she's not lollygagging and moving sluggishly. Even if you are applying pressure pretty firmly and she's loping, if you feel like you are pedaling a bike and as soon as you quit pedaling, she will quit, she's not forward enough for you to quit applying pressure. As soon as she feels like she's in front of your leg, leave her alone completely and let her continue forward for a few strides. Do NOT keep your leg on, you want moving forward to be the good deal here. Then bring her back to a halt and begin again.

You'll see improvement pretty darn quickly. After a few repetitions you'll notice that she is taking a larger, more forward stride. She'll also begin to stay forward for longer before she starts to die down and get behind your leg, don't worry about that just yet.

When you have a nice forward walk to start with off a squeeze, then you can teach her to maintain it. Ask her to walk on then allow her to get behind your leg and then stop. As soon as she stops, correct her. Skip the squeeze and immediately go to your dressage whip or begin with a light kick. You have already asked her to walk forward nicely, this is the correction so it will be more firm. As soon as she's in front of your leg at whatever gait, leave her alone.

This will teach her to be responsible for herself, she should maintain the same amount of forward until you ask for something else. Since you are leaving her alone when she goes, it's the easy thing to do. By allowing her to make the mistake of stopping, you are letting her learn that is the more difficult choice to make.

When she can maintain a nice walk, ask for the trot from the walk. Already you will see a heap of improvement. When you've repeated this at the trot, ask for the lope. Each step that you work on will improve the next. When you get to the lope in a couple of rides, you will find her to be much more forward.
 
#5 ·
What everybody else says. I agree. Also try to teach a hand gallop extension for half the arena (or more) to a more collected canter or lope. You will wake her up with the gallop and then sit with as minimal a half halt ( try just with the seat resisting to follow movement first) as possible. Try these transitions within the canter because it will help your horse be aware a transition may be coming, yes, but not necessarily a downward one. I have found this helpful.
 
#6 ·
thankyou everyone! Very helpful replies!

I don't actually have a video of her falling out of canter and bucking as its on my other memory cad and i can't find the god **** thing!

I do, however have a video of us jumping a while back where she is cantering quite forward which ill post so you can see my balance if that helps?

To ask for canter, i get an active trot, sit just before a corner, outside leg behind the girth and squeeze until she pops into canter.

I'm a firm believer on soft horses so i try not to nag her with my leg as I read that using leg as a 'Keep going' aid dulls out the 'Move faster' aid which makes sense i guess. I do however make sure if she slows down i ask her to speed up which is when she bucks.
 
#7 ·
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AtEzDMvptPI&feature=youtu.be

I'm not sure if this helps, this was about 80cm (highest we've jumped) which is why im riding so determindly, she used to go back to trot infront of the jump. I ride differently when not jumping

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WT53OUeMSMs&index=2&list=UUVJyC5y4PiKPVTl-JpQd0UA

this was about a month after i got her and was one of her first jumps

I don't know if those give you any clues to rider faults? I'll get a video next weekend if i can!

and this is what lola says to the whip!
 

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#9 ·
You look like a tall, long-legged rider on that small horse. This may be one reason why your stirrup straps look so short, even for jumping. You may be wanting to use your heels on her.

You would sit much better if you would lengthen your stirrup straps. You can use your legs rather than your heels for cuing. Always think of your balance when riding. Think: "What would happen if my horse magically disappeared?" You would want to land on your feet, not your seat or your face. When not jumping, ride with your stirrup straps even longer. Try adjusting them so the stirrups hang near your ankles when your feet are out of the stirrups. This should help you feel your balance better. I have some students who prefer to ride without stirrups as this helps them sit better.

The better you balance, the easier it is for your horse to carry you and balance itself. Think of carrying someone on your shoulders or on your back. The better they balance and support themselves, the easier they are to carry.

A review of Martin Diggle’s book “Masters of Equitation on Canter” seems to indicate that more methods have been used to get a horse to canter than to assume any other gait. This includes an old cavalry manual that suggested throwing the horse off balance to get the desired lead.

The method for obtaining a canter that you describe – “To ask for canter, I get an active trot, sit just before a corner, outside leg behind the girth and squeeze until she pops into canter.” – is quite commonly used, because it can get almost any horse to canter. However, this is seldom a good canter.

If you truly want to develop a good canter, you should do a lot of work on obtaining good balance. This includes work at the walk in which you have plenty of time to think about how you are balanced and how your horse is balanced. It, also, means work in the sitting trot in which your can develop a stable yet following seat and hands that remain in consistent contact which your horse’s mouth. When you have this, you can better execute good half-halts.

As you prepare to ask for the canter, perform a half-halt to better balance both yourself and your horse. Ask for a slight bend at the poll to the inside at the same time you draw your outside leg back slightly. Rubbing the outside leg against the horse’s side as you draw it back is often all that is needed to ask for the canter. There are other things to try such as pressure of the inside leg, or both legs. This should be a squeeze and release, rather than a constant squeeze. You should avoid just a squeeze of the outside leg which might encourage the horse to move its haunches to the inside.

If the horse doesn’t take the canter, increase the intensity of the squeeze – both speed and pressure. Once the horse takes the canter, ride a short distance and ask for a trot or walk. I know this may sound like encouraging the horse to fall out of the canter as it has been doing. However, you are asking for this; the horse is not doing it on its own. The reason I suggest doing this is that the horse is best balanced in the first few strides of the canter. You want to help the horse learn how to carry itself for the best movement. She can best do this if she is not cantered a great deal in bad balance.

When working on the canter, be aware of your horse’s physical condition. It does no good to keep working on this if the horse is too tired to perform the movement well. Work on lateral movements, transitions, hill climbing, etc. can also help improve the strength and flexibility of a horse’s hindquarters which should improve its ability to canter well.

I realize that this is a long post, but I wanted to give you information which can help you help your horse perform as you desire.
 
#11 ·
First & foremost, I'd assume physical pain/discomfort is a strong possibility. For one, imperfect saddle fit puts around 3 times the pressure on points when cantering as at the walk & trot. So before you assume it's just behavioural/training, ensure you rule out/treat other probs.

Next, if she's only 5yo especially & has always been reluctant or 'stubborn' & always tries to get out of 'work' I'd be personally thinking training was going the wrong way. Especially for a young, green horse, I want the horse to learn to enjoy playing my 'games', not think of it as unpleasant 'work' to be evaded if possible.
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#12 ·
Yes, I have a five year old (who is for sale, by the way, if anyone wants to take a look) and I have always made sure that he is honest, and never let mistakes go unnoticed. Green horses need to be ridden by experienced riders, especially if you are teaching them things. You may not be ready to train this horse, or your personality may clash with the horse's and she may not be willing to show effort for you. This is okay. If this is not the issue, then here are my suggestions:

- Lots of leg. And I mean a lot of it. Get her so responsive off of your leg that just by the motion of your outside leg moving behind the girth, she will be eager to pick up the canter. This means TRANSITIONS! Walk to trot, trot to canter, canter to trot, canter to walk, canter to halt, back up, pick up trot, etc. This is incredibly important with greenies. My impression is that you are just picking up a gait and just going around the arena does no good. You may have a case of ring sourness on your hands -- which happens with green horses, and you have to be careful. The gait is not the goal. The willingness to do the gait is the goal.
 
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